Land of Punt

[Zak12]

It seems likely that it was only located in Ethiopia/Eritrea and maybe Sudan

 

[attash]

They say it was the Gash Group who lived in Sudan/Eritrea. The Gash Group were likely early Cushites who were the ancestors of Somalis and Oromos (before they migrated to the horn) - and not related to the South Semetic groups who were the ancestors of the Habesha. So we still have a better claim to the Land of Punt than this Habesha nigga.

Gash Group - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[attash]

The projection is insane lmfao

 

[BidaarBoy]

Most likely stretched from east Sudan into Somaliland/Djibouti

 

[BidaarBoy]

They say it was the Gash Group who lived in Sudan/Eritrea. The Gash Group were likely early Cushites who were the ancestors of Somalis and Oromos (before they migrated to the horn) - and not related to the South Semetic groups who were the ancestors of the Habesha. So we still have a better claim to the Land of Punt than this Habesha nigga.

That makes no sense to tie gash group just to Somalis and not habeshas lol both groups have a claim

 

[attash]

That makes no sense to tie gash group just to Somalis and not habeshas lol both groups have a claim

Yeah they both have a claim since Habeshas have a lot of Cushitic admixture. I was just annoyed that this nigga was trying to say we were "stealing Habesha history"

 

[Zak12]

Yeah they both have a claim since Habeshas have a lot of Cushitic admixture. I was just annoyed that this nigga was trying to say we were "stealing Habesha history"

I don't know too much about Punt but its always dumb when nationalists try to tie history that far predates their country and culture. For example, I get why some Amhara would claim Aksum as despite there barely being any Aksumite sites in the Amhara region, they at least speak an Ethiosemitic language and are Christian.

Meanwhile Punt is just so far removed from Ethiopian history that its nonsense to claim it as an Ethiopian kingdom that Somalis steal lol. Its akin to calling Stonehenge an English creation or something.

 

[Keep it a boqol]

It seems likely that it was only located in Ethiopia/Eritrea and maybe Sudan

all this guy does is calcaal about somalis he’s a langaab tigray

 

[Riftvalley]

The ease with which Cushitic people migrated down from Sudan into Tanzania,Kenya and Somalia in the ancient times shows there was trade links and close cultural links between those communities. I posted a thread the other day about possible early Oromo influence on South Cushitic. This is after the time period being discussed in the thread but what it does highlight is the migrations pattens and wiser early east Cushitic-south Cushitic links across the Horn. To apply modern nation states and ethnicities into these ancient communities is the stuff of trolls.

Those Kenyan samples being similar to dna from The Nile Valley shows you how easily ancient people were moving around in the Horn/East Africa.

then you have the archaeology, cave paintings etc which can be classed as a type of a pan North Horn/East African cultural continuum with differing local variations. It is interesting to note that puntites were amongst a coalition who helped Kush fight AEs. While this is before the time of Somalis, their ancestors and other east Cushitic were definitely linked to Punt through the Gash culture.

Sadly, East African online discussions are plagued by an army of vermin and armchair warriors who see history as a tool for racist and ethno centric trolling. This Habesha guy is symptom of that. We have an over abundance of lunatics with an interest in history and tribes due to the chaotic nature of our politics/tribal cultures. I am not surprised at these Ethiopian when there are young Somalis who post content about Somalis being paraded in zoos to insult other clans.

 

[Zak12]

when there are young Somalis who post content about Somalis being paraded in zoos to insult other clans.

This sort of stuff drive me up the wall. Modern politics and qabiliyaad is used to distort the history and culture of Somalis by downplaying certain clans and making their own look good. This cancerous material is then used by actual non-Somalis to belittle Somalis as a whole.

 

[Riftvalley]

BTW those researchers on the baboons located punt as within “Eastern Ethiopia” and Eritrea. Similar or closely linked people would have inhabited Eritrea, Eastern Ethiopia and Somalia at that time. The Egyptians could have also preferred a type of Baboon from Eastern Ethiopia or Eritrea. It is ridiculous to suggest that Somalia which is a stone throw away from modern Eastern Ethiopia(greater Somalia) would have not being closely linked or part of punt due to one trade product being sourced form another location.

 

[Riftvalley]

This sort of stuff drive me up the wall. Modern politics and qabiliyaad is used to distort the history and culture of Somalis by downplaying certain clans and making their own look good. This cancerous material is then used by actual non-Somalis to belittle Somalis as a whole.

It is basically fadhi ku dirir in a modern form using Google books and peer reviewed articles. I think there is an element of cultural psychosis and diaspora trauma involved as well. The online Somali community interactions with each other and other communities are sometimes disturbing .

 

[Idilinaa]

That's a false positive. The scientists said they cannot differentiate the baboon specimens from Eritrea and Somalia from each-other.

They interviewed them not too long ago:
Locating the ancient lost city of Punt with mummified baboons Scientists are able to narrow down the location of Punt by analysing ancient baboon remains

. And so then we can match the mummified specimens that are present at the British Museum to populations in those areas. And the great thing about our analysis is we could definitively rule out some places, and we showed a very strong match to animals living in Eritrea and Somalia today.

We can rule those places out. And we can say definitively that it was somewhere in Africa, on the horn of Africa, probably in Eritrea and Somalia. We can't distinguish between those two places, which are the two contending places that most scholars agree on.

We could mention other things like the Frankincense specimens that they found in Ancient Egyptians tombs are the type of species ''Boswellia frereana ,'' that exclusively only grows in Northern Somalia and nowhere else.

We also have like Greco-Roman writings that show the Pharaoh Sesostris I led an expedition to a Somali port and that same Pharaoh is recorded in Ancient Egyptian records as leading an expedition to Punt.

Not only does the archeological evidence strongly suggest that's it's the northern-eastern Somali coast but also the written sources. I could also mention other indirect evidences as well.

 

[Midas]

I think to me the most obvious reason that's is three things 1) the name berber which still have in the topnyom of berbera and we have been called this for millenia 2) all of the main anicent port towns are on the somali side 3) look at the continuity of somali trade even today we're basically the only people in the horn who travel through east africa and the rest of the world as traders. Even the British and other Europeans noticed this trend back in the 19th century. It's actually kind of crazy how we haven't changed much as a people in millenia.

 

[Idilinaa]

I think to me the most obvious reason that's is three things 1) the name berber which still have in the topnyom of berbera and we have been called this for millenia 2) all of the main anicent port towns are on the somali side 3) look at the continuity of somali trade even today we're basically the only people in the horn who travel through east africa and the rest of the world as traders. Even the British and other Europeans noticed this trend back in the 19th century. It's actually kind of crazy how we haven't changed much as a people in millenia.

What you mention is not really evidence at all. The name Berber has been discussed before it's general term applied to wide areas and people. There is toponyms called Berber in Sudan, Eritrea and Egypt and Maghreb. Somali coastal history of engaging in trade doesn't automatically make it punt either.

Aside from the direct pieces of evidences i mention before. The indirect evidences from the periplus documents mentions the imported products from Somali ports and most of them allign with the products Ancient Egyptians imported from punt in egyptians records.

And the Greco-Roman writings associates an Ancient Egyptian legacy with Somali coastal ports, naming them after Egyptian idols like Isis and carrying on romanized name for Kheto Ati --> Cape Aromata.

 

[EritreanPost_]

No warya, Kingdom of punt was located in Eritrea eastern Sudan Djibouti and Somalia

 

[Midas]

What you mention is not really evidence at all. The name Berber has been discussed before it's general term applied to wide areas and people. There is toponyms called Berber in Sudan, Eritrea and Egypt and Maghreb. Somali coastal history of engaging in trade doesn't automatically make it punt either.

Aside from the direct pieces of evidences i mention before. The indirect evidences from the periplus documents mentions the imported products from Somali ports and most of them allign with the products Ancient Egyptians imported from punt in egyptians records.

And the Greco-Roman writings associates an Ancient Egyptian legacy with Somali coastal ports, naming them after Egyptian idols like Isis and carrying on romanized name for Kheto Ati --> Cape Aromata.

Hmm that's intresting I didn't know about the berber being that widespread. That does make sense . Your right that the products are probably the strongest evidence. But I still think there is something to the idea of continuity. I mean I think shimbris mentioned an example of this with the Abaan tradition mentioned by ibn battuate and then again by burton . Or how the peripulis referred to sewn boats going from somalia to Yemen and this was still being done in the 19th century .

 

[Idilinaa]

Hmm that's intresting I didn't know about the berber being that widespread. That does make sense . Your right that the products are probably the strongest evidence. But I still think there is something to the idea of continuity. I mean I think shimbris mentioned an example of this with the Abaan tradition mentioned by ibn battuate and then again by burton . Or how the peripulis referred to sewn boats going from somalia to Yemen and this was still being done in the 19th century .

Products are not the strongest evidence at all, as they are merely indirect like i said. I.e circumstantial.

I don't know how Ibn Batutat in the 13th century or sewn boats fit's in to all of this. And that type of boat building was a regularity across the red sea/Indian ocean not just Somalia, the tradition survived in Somalia last until it was replaced thats what Shimbir pointed out.


What i mentioned in the post below is far more stronger and more direct evidence and an even stronger evidence that might provide conclusive would be some archeological material that ties back to punt if we ever discover it in Somalia or Eritrea, we'll just have to wait and see.

That's a false positive. The scientists said they cannot differentiate the baboon specimens from Eritrea and Somalia from each-other.

They interviewed them not too long ago:
Locating the ancient lost city of Punt with mummified baboons Scientists are able to narrow down the location of Punt by analysing ancient baboon remains



We could mention other things like the Frankincense specimens that they found in Ancient Egyptians tombs are the type of species ''Boswellia frereana ,'' that exclusively only grows in Northern Somalia and nowhere else.

We also have like Greco-Roman writings that show the Pharaoh Sesostris I led an expedition to a Somali port and that same Pharaoh is recorded in Ancient Egyptian records as leading an expedition to Punt.

Not only does the archeological evidence strongly suggest that's it's the northern-eastern Somali coast but also the written sources. I could also mention other indirect evidences as well.

 

[Midas]

Products are not the strongest evidence at all, as they are merely indirect like i said. I.e circumstantial.

I don't know how Ibn Batutat in the 13th century or sewn boats fit's in to all of this. And that type of boat building was a regularity across the red sea/Indian ocean not just Somalia, the tradition survived in Somalia last until it was replaced thats what Shimbir pointed out.


What i mentioned in the post below is far more stronger and more direct evidence and an even stronger evidence that might provide conclusive would be some archeological material that ties back to punt if we ever discover it in Somalia or Eritrea, we'll just have to wait and see.

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. If you identify a group in the historical record and find another group in that same area at a later date and you notice that they they share certain customs and characteristics. The assumption is that there is a connection and it's not random. How do we know that it's somalis ibn battatua is referring to? It's not simply the city name. It's that we still fit his descriptions. The same idea is at play with the abaan(which is basically a guide that foreigners in somali had to have) and the trade between our coast and yemen that was done with sewn boats. Is any of this bullet proof or a smoking gun? Of course not. But it establishes that there is a continuity between these past people and us.

 

[Idilinaa]

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. If you identify a group in the historical record and find another group in that same area at a later date and you notice that they they share certain customs and characteristics. The assumption is that there is a connection and it's not random. How do we know that it's somalis ibn battatua is referring to? It's not simply the city name. It's that we still fit his descriptions. The same idea is at play with the abaan(which is basically a guide that foreigners in somali had to have) and the trade between our coast and yemen that was done with sewn boats. Is any of this bullet proof or a smoking gun? Of course not. But it establishes that there is a continuity between these past people and us.

We are not identifying a group. We are identifying possible locations. With either Somalia or Eritrea being prime candidates.

Where is punt located is the thread topic. All that other stuff you are mentioning is completely unrelated to it. No idea to what you are on about , sorry.