Jewish/Phonecian Influence

[oogabooga]

I’m curious, is there any linguistic evidence of Jewish/Phonecian influence on the Somali language? I’ve found plenty in the Harari language, even though we are inland. I mean words only found in Hebrew and Geysinan/Somali, not Arabic. For example,

Harari - Hebrew

Gey - Goy + Gaya (both referring to nation, country, land)
Malaha - Malokh (to choose/chosen)
Ir/Or - Or (Ir in Geysinan means sun, Or means something pure, and the Hebrew Or is light)
Hegana- Hagana (to defend, a former Israeli paramilitary group was called Haganah)
Magan - Magan (both mean protector, in Geysinan we say Ala Magan)
Abdal - Abdiel (means slave of God, suggests that the previous deity of Hararis was Al, so it makes me think it’s Phonecian influence)
Alaf - Aluf (never knew what the harari word meant but I know it’s a Harari name, in Hebrew it means commander/champion)


These are the ones I can think from the top of my head. It was really interesting to see these connections, suggesting some sort of contact with the Levant. I’m thinking it’s probably someone like the Phonecians but I’m not sure.

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

There may or may not be but this kinda discussion can become misleading very quickly because people always jump to saying a cognate is a loanword whereas it might be (and often is) a common proto-Afro Asiatic root.

For example many cognates or similar sounding words between Arabic and Somali such as 'faras' are falsely listed as a loanword when it is actually found in many related languages and is not Arabic per se.

 

[oogabooga]

There may or may not be but this kinda discussion can become misleading very quickly because people always jump to saying a cognate is a loanword whereas it might be (and often is) a common proto-Afro Asiatic root.

Not really. For example, if all Semitic languages have a word and only one Cushitic does, what happened to all Cushitic languages? It suggests that that word is of Semetic origin.

For example many cognates or similar sounding words between Arabic and Somali such as 'faras' are falsely listed as a loanword when it is actually found in many related languages and is not Arabic per se.

Faras is found in all Ethio-Semetic and Semetic languages. It cannot be said the same for Cushitic languages. Hence, that’s why the academics suggest that faras is a loanword in the Somali language.

 

[killerxsmoke]

I’m curious, is there any linguistic evidence of Jewish/Phonecian influence on the Somali language? I’ve found plenty in the Harari language, even though we are inland. I mean words only found in Hebrew and Geysinan/Somali, not Arabic. For example,

Harari - Hebrew

Gey - Goy + Gaya (both referring to nation, country, land)
Malaha - Malokh (to choose/chosen)
Ir/Or - Or (Ir in Geysinan means sun, Or means something pure, and the Hebrew Or is light)
Hegana- Hagana (to defend, a former Israeli paramilitary group was called Haganah)
Magan - Magan (both mean protector, in Geysinan we say Ala Magan)
Abdal - Abdiel (means slave of God, suggests that the previous deity of Hararis was Al, so it makes me think it’s Phonecian influence)
Alaf - Aluf (never knew what the harari word meant but I know it’s a Harari name, in Hebrew it means commander/champion)


These are the ones I can think from the top of my head. It was really interesting to see these connections, suggesting some sort of contact with the Levant. I’m thinking it’s probably someone like the Phonecians but I’m not sure.

I'm pretty sure the say chili (basbaas) the same as we do

 

[ina-cilmi]

I’m curious, is there any linguistic evidence of Jewish/Phonecian influence on the Somali language? I’ve found plenty in the Harari language, even though we are inland. I mean words only found in Hebrew and Geysinan/Somali, not Arabic. For example,

Harari - Hebrew

Gey - Goy + Gaya (both referring to nation, country, land)
Malaha - Malokh (to choose/chosen)
Ir/Or - Or (Ir in Geysinan means sun, Or means something pure, and the Hebrew Or is light)
Hegana- Hagana (to defend, a former Israeli paramilitary group was called Haganah)
Magan - Magan (both mean protector, in Geysinan we say Ala Magan)
Abdal - Abdiel (means slave of God, suggests that the previous deity of Hararis was Al, so it makes me think it’s Phonecian influence)
Alaf - Aluf (never knew what the harari word meant but I know it’s a Harari name, in Hebrew it means commander/champion)


These are the ones I can think from the top of my head. It was really interesting to see these connections, suggesting some sort of contact with the Levant. I’m thinking it’s probably someone like the Phonecians but I’m not sure.

somalis use magan too but it means refuge. we also say Magan Alle, it means the same as I seek refuge with/in Allah or ofc

أعوذُ بِٱللَّهِ​

 

[oogabooga]

I'm pretty sure the say chili (basbaas) the same as we do

interesting, prolly from trade

 

[oogabooga]

somalis use magan too but it means refuge. we also say Magan Alle, it means the same as I seek refuge with/in Allah or ofc

أعوذُ بِٱللَّهِ​

Ok cool, it means around the same thing. Why

أعوذُ بِٱللَّهِ​

?

 

[daljirkadahsoon]

Not really. For example, if all Semitic languages have a word and only one Cushitic does, what happened to all Cushitic languages? It suggests that that word is of Semetic origin.

Faras is found in all Ethio-Semetic and Semetic languages. It cannot be said the same for Cushitic languages. Hence, that’s why the academics suggest that faras is a loanword in the Somali language.

It is not a loanword and it is untrue that only Somali has it from the Cushitic languages

 

[killerxsmoke]

interesting, prolly from trade

They also have canjeero in their country but they call it laxoox the same way isaaq, dir and Yemenis do but laxoox might me a loan arabic word who knows. Canjeero was introduced by them by Yemeni jews

 

[ina-cilmi]

Ok cool, it means around the same thing. Why

أعوذُ بِٱللَّهِ​

?

wym why ? why I put it in both english and Arabic? idk i just wanted to, not much of a reason behind it

 

[oogabooga]

They also have canjeero in their country but they call it laxoox the same way isaaq, dir and Yemenis do but laxoox might me a loan arabic word who knows. Canjeero was introduced by them by Yemeni jews

Yeah don’t forget isaaqs and dirs used to trade with the Yemenis for so long at this point.

 

[oogabooga]

It is not a loanword and it is untrue that only Somali has it from the Cushitic languages

Which other Cushitic language has it sir?

 

[oogabooga]

wym why ? why I put it in both english and Arabic? idk i just wanted to, not much of a reason behind it

oh ok makes sense

 

[The alchemist]

Harari is relatively young. Those words are either shared genetic terms in broad Semitic or borrowed bi-directionally during the Arabian era, i.e., pre-Horn migration.

 

[oogabooga]

Harari is relatively young. Those words are either shared genetic terms in broad Semitic or borrowed bi-directionally during the Arabian era, i.e., pre-Horn migration.
View attachment 328883

Where did you come up with the idea that Harari is a relatively young language? If these words were shared genetic terms among broad Semetic groups, then these common words should be prevalent amongst many Semetic groups. And if that was the case, it should have descended down to the most widespread of Semetic languages, Arabic. Since that’s not the case, it suggests more of a direct connection between Hebrew/Phonecian directly with the Harari language.

 

[Laser]

I’m curious, is there any linguistic evidence of Jewish/Phonecian influence on the Somali language? I’ve found plenty in the Harari language, even though we are inland. I mean words only found in Hebrew and Geysinan/Somali, not Arabic. For example,

Harari - Hebrew

Gey - Goy + Gaya (both referring to nation, country, land)
Malaha - Malokh (to choose/chosen)
Ir/Or - Or (Ir in Geysinan means sun, Or means something pure, and the Hebrew Or is light)
Hegana- Hagana (to defend, a former Israeli paramilitary group was called Haganah)
Magan - Magan (both mean protector, in Geysinan we say Ala Magan)
Abdal - Abdiel (means slave of God, suggests that the previous deity of Hararis was Al, so it makes me think it’s Phonecian influence)
Alaf - Aluf (never knew what the harari word meant but I know it’s a Harari name, in Hebrew it means commander/champion)


These are the ones I can think from the top of my head. It was really interesting to see these connections, suggesting some sort of contact with the Levant. I’m thinking it’s probably someone like the Phonecians but I’m not sure.

You sure abdal isn't just abdalle meaning servant of allah in arabic?

 

[oogabooga]

You sure abdal isn't just abdalle meaning servant of allah in arabic?

That’s what I first thought, but I looked at other religious Harari sayings like “Alestakh” or “Ala Magan” or “Alleyo.” The first saying actually sparked a theological debate where Ahbash were saying that’s wrong because you are not saying the name Allah the way Allah says it.

 

[Maakhri from dhahar]

I’m curious, is there any linguistic evidence of Jewish/Phonecian influence on the Somali language? I’ve found plenty in the Harari language, even though we are inland. I mean words only found in Hebrew and Geysinan/Somali, not Arabic. For example,

Harari - Hebrew

Gey - Goy + Gaya (both referring to nation, country, land)

The Harari language is the language of a small, remote village. It is more correct to say that the Harari language borrowed a lot from the languages around it, which are older and broader than it, such as the Somali language, which is considered very ancient and worthy of study.

look at this :

𒆠 ( ki , means : “earth”) , 𒀭 ( ān, “sky”) in Sumerian language .
𒀭𒆠 • (an-ki /ānki/) the universe, heaven and earth .

Geb was the Egyptian god of the Earth

γῆ (gê) means : " land , earth , country , soil " in Ancient Greek language .
From a Pre-Greek/substrate. The names Δημήτηρ (Dēmḗtēr) is an alternative form *δᾶ (*dâ).

An important linguistic note to remember
The letter "D" can be changed to the letter "G" , or vice versa IN ALL LANGUAGES .
γῆ (gê) ↔ δᾶ (*dâ) .

geometry From γεω- ( geō-, “earth” )+‎ μετρέω (metréō, “to measure”) +‎ -ης (-ēs).

Geb was the Egyptian god of the Earth .

look here the Egyptian ( Geb ) is equivalent to the Somali word ( geyi ) .
An important linguistic note to remember :
The letter " Y " can be changed to the letter "B" , or vice versa .
geyi → geb

چي ← چب

 

[oogabooga]

The Harari language is the language of a small, remote village. It is more correct to say that the Harari language borrowed a lot from the languages around it, which are older and broader than it, such as the Somali language, which is considered very ancient and worthy of study.

look at this :

𒆠 ( ki , means : “earth”) , 𒀭 ( ān, “sky”) in Sumerian language .
𒀭𒆠 • (an-ki /ānki/) the universe, heaven and earth .

Geb was the Egyptian god of the Earth

γῆ (gê) means : " land , earth , country , soil " in Ancient Greek language .
From a Pre-Greek/substrate. The names Δημήτηρ (Dēmḗtēr) is an alternative form *δᾶ (*dâ).

An important linguistic note to remember
The letter "D" can be changed to the letter "G" , or vice versa IN ALL LANGUAGES .
γῆ (gê) ↔ δᾶ (*dâ) .

geometry From γεω- ( geō-, “earth” )+‎ μετρέω (metréō, “to measure”) +‎ -ης (-ēs).

Geb was the Egyptian god of the Earth .

look here the Egyptian ( Geb ) is equivalent to the Somali word ( geyi ) .
An important linguistic note to remember :
The letter " Y " can be changed to the letter "B" , or vice versa .
geyi → geb

چي ← چب

Craziest suugo science I’ve ever seen bro.

 

[oogabooga]

Would like to add to this thread one interesting saint amongst the many in Harar’s knowledge. His name is Baal Sheikh. Interesting because Baal was the Phonecian god. Like Hannibaal. Interesting side tangent that Carthage was locally called Qart-Hadasht. In Geysinan, qart is similar to the root word qara, which means “to stay.” Hadasht is similar to dashi, meaning “land.” Aka its a settlement outpost of the Phonecians.