This reminded me of the “kibir darood” term I heard some use
Futuh al-Habasha: Somalis As Bedouins
- Thread starter Shimbiris
- Start date
Gerri is still in Galbeed. They neighbour Gadabuursi, Jaarso and other Darood.
As for the clans who are not mentioned as 'Somali', I might know why for at least Bartire.
Bartire are recorded as late as Burton's travels as being agro-pastoralists and growing coffee in the vicinity of Harar. The ban around Jigjiga is good for cultivation and it is possible they were agro-pastoralist around the time of the Futuh too and if we are going with the theory that "Somali" = bedouin ethnic Somali only this makes sense.
Another potential cause for the slightly odd names is the Ethiopian practice of holding princes and children of Adal notables hostage.
Step a side
VIP
As you’ve quoted, in 1893 the Dhulbahante said the ruined town near Badwein in the Nugaal Valley were occupied by “Harli” which likely refers to the Harla, and that they were civilised, could read and write, and cultivated the land via irrigation.
This paper called “Ruined towns in Nugaal: a forgotten medieval civilisation in interior Somalia” actually goes into more depth about it and finds a link between the ruined towns in Nugaal and Harla:
Ruined towns in Nugaal: a forgotten medieval civilisation in interior Somalia
Download Citation | Ruined towns in Nugaal: a forgotten medieval civilisation in interior Somalia | The existence of ruined towns in interior Somalia, most of them in the northwest, has been known to Western observers since 1854. Some were... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on...www.researchgate.net
40km to the east of Garowe there was a medieval town referred to as Xundhurgaal. The Archaeologists have said that the pottery found there is linked and similar with pottery found in Harla Ethiopia, and is dated between 14-15th century.
View attachment 319890
I believe Harla were the settled Somalis in the medieval period, even in dry regions like Sool they had towns and cities as they were able to irrigate the Nugaal River to cultivate the land.
View attachment 319892
The Portuguese missionary said that Maydh was a good town famous for commerce, but the Portuguese turned it into an impoverished town where every single boat no matter how small was being destroyed, the settled Somalis (Harla) civilisation probably collapsed by late 17th century and they forced to revert to a nomadic lifestyle.
Before 1600, there was a long Haysin caravan route that went from Harar to Berbera down the Nugaal valley, the desert inbetween the 3 was harsh but temporay, in times of the numerous Adal leaders of the 1400/1500 alot of experts and farmers came and built small towns. Interestingly enough there is a region in SSC named after Sixawle (gurey’s tribe). The place is called Yigori.
This is backed by oral history of the Karanle who experienced an exodus from Harage towards Nugaal during the medieval period and then dispersing everywhere from there. Listen from 7:10 onwards.
what he wrote is incorrect, Its not Ba alawi manuscript but a book by a Somali historian named Ahmed Abdullah rirash
احمد عبدالله ريراش
His book name :
كشف السّدول عن تاريخ الصومال وممالكهم السبعة
Step a side
VIP
Thanks for this. It changes the entire narrative. Rirash is a joke
walal where can I read more about this ? Especially about the origins of gadabursi
AUN macalin rirashThanks for this. It changes the entire narrative. Rirash is a joke
I wonder where the idea ahmed gurey was not somali even came from. I don't think there has ever been a real foreign ruler in somali history. I mean, it's obvious just looking at somali society. Considering the extreme suspicion, somalis hold towards foreigners . It's laughable that the nomadic somalis who are even more prejudiced would listen to an ajanabi. An even bigger proof is that you are far more likely to find individuals and groups of somali decedent living amongst the fats or eritreans. Somebody here even posted about explorers meeting somali merchants in eritrea. We should probably look into somali rulers in dahalak or shewa and maybe even sudan and the swahili coast. That's probably far more likely.
Step a side
VIP
According to the Afar oral history the Harla were present in the area already before the Imam Mohamed ibn Ibrahim ibn Gasa arrived with even more Harla to kickstart the Awssa imamate. From my understanding is that Harla were sedentary Somalis.
Indeed, even if one were to assume the existence of some “ethio semites” based on a few loan words, it would still mean they were always culturally more similar to Somalis than other so-called East African semites.
Till this day, Somalis are one of the most related and culturally similar group to Hararis etc.They don’t consider themselves as close to Habashi Christians.The Ethio Semite agenda does also have a political agenda; that is, a slow ethiopianisation of the Muslims in “Eastern Ethiopia” and the cultural erasure of their links to Somalia/Somalis. Don’t forget many worked closely with the SYL and their history is tied to the Imam as much as Somalis.
The Harari manuscripts showing a link between Walashama and Barkhadle, and the recent discovery of Harla genealogy linking to Ismail Jeberti, are signs that the early Islamic Dawah movement from Zeila, Berbera, Maydh and other areas left a strong imprint on the region. I believe the Afar Harla manuscripts mention 40 Sheikhs spreading Dawah just as some Somali oral histories depict. SOMALI sheikhs and traders would have a played an important in those movements. Harar itself was said to have developed as a result of movements of sheikhs, traders and nomads from the interior. Arab writers knew about the Somali Islamic trading posts on the the coast way before Harar was even known to the outside world.
Ramadan Mubarak guys.!
Last edited:
The genetic studies don't support this 'Ethio-Semitic' presence either.
If the Harla were Ethio-Semitic, there should be a notable uptick in Ethio-Semitic DNA amongst Somalis and other peoples who assimilated them considering their sheer size and the territory they inhabited.
No such uptick has been found.
Cerulli also interacted with three groups of Harla descendants- two of whom were scattered amongst Oromo and Afar and one amongst Somali and yet all three spoke Somali- though in a dialect similar to Af-Madhibaan.
The documents found in Djibouti and Yemen also have Harla descended families trace their lineage to Somali clans.
Step a side
VIP
You are right brother. Ethio-Semitic is fake stuff made up.
Masare are Dir Madigaan but Gasare who also live near Harar and beyond are Galjecel (Saransoor). Both them and the Jiidle have expanded far west towards Addis Ababa.
The Kaariye Karanle of Bale are known as Karara while in Hararge they go by Maya.
The other Karanle subs in Hararge go by different names. Maaru are Gidir while Reer Muumiji are Sixawle. Baabili elder below breaks it down some of the Somali clans around Harar that are known by different Oromo names. Watch till the end.
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content.
Log in or register now.
This is the original Somali border, from the Rift valley to Malindi, the Karanle that met the Arsi Oromo were from Bale which is the deep southern regions of liibaan and afdheer bordering east and west bale, guji and borena. The Oromo tribes us Karanle border in the north are Afran qallo including the Nole, Ala, Ittu, the western Oromo we border in Bale deep into Shewa are the Arusi, the Oromo in Nageyle are the Borana like the Oromised Karayu
All the way in Sidame you find Fardano sub of Degodia while Sawola are Sixawle.
Arsi and Somali
The alchemist
VIP
@Shimbiris see how the late medieval Abyssinians (Habash) considered the camel a regular food among the Muslims for meat, of which we know only Somalis had the camel population to eat that normally. We're shown repeatedly through all relevant indicators that the general Islamic region in the medieval days was inhabited by Somalis.
Thomas Guindeuil, "What do Christians (Not) Eat: Food Taboos and the Ethiopian Christian Communities (13th-18th c.)"(2014): p. 66
Pay attention to how the source said neighboring communities. It means even in the far the Somali periphery, showing that Somalis had a presence deep into Ethiopia, so far that on the margins camel meat was very accessible. It shows one important thing if we are to do a serious analysis.
If these were Habash Muslims, they would not have a camel-eating tendency since they never had a camel herder disposition. Logically, one can deduce that the camel is not the predominant animal at all the further you geographically penetrate, thus any love for camel needs to be an ethnographic anthropological emphasis rooted deep to the point that supersedes the environmental constraints. This is why any group that was originally never camel pastoralists, all groups that are not Somali and Afar, could never naturally demand the camel as an important food in the peripheral regions where the camel is not the main livestock available. Unless they shared the same original culture and love for camel, considering the pastoralist aspect as central to their identity despite how they might not be pastoralists even.
The Muslims that live in those Habash areas today do not eat camel meat:
Éloi Ficquet, "Flesh Soaked In Faith," (2006): p. 45
Lij Iyasu, the emperor of Ethiopia, slaughtered a camel to forge some form of political situation between Muslims. Notably, the camel was chosen for the Muslims. To the Christian Ethiopians, its original ethnic association changed toward a purely religious one, when in fact there is nothing in Islam that is generally camel emphasizing in meat consumption compared to cow, goat, and sheep. The fact that those highland Ethiopian Muslims such as Amaharas don't eat camel meat even if it is accessible, underscores my point that argument. So this was never religious in nature, meaning no one can peddle that idea as a way to wiggle away from the fact that it was one of the major Somali meat preferences first and foremost.
Éloi Ficquet, "Flesh Soaked In Faith," (2006): p. 53
Notice the false association between the camel and how important it is for Muslims when it is a tradition of perception by the Christians because of the ethnoreligious association of Somali camel eaters. In their logic from the medieval age: Somalis ate camels --> Somalis were Muslims and the predominant demographic --> thus camel important Muslim diet. Later they falsely as you see above with an emperor trying to form ties with Muslims by slaughtering a camel for symbolism. I wanted to correct the whole thing but either way, this is important evidence of how even down to the modern era, non-Muslims in the region carried a tradition of their own thinking that camel was an important Islamic meat when it was merely important for Somalis.
Rationally the non-Somali Muslim minorities that later became Muslims due to Somali Islamic contact never had a subsistence based on camel flesh consumption given their geography and tendency to herd different animals -- if they ever had love of that, only through the influence of a culture considered more dominant in the region could have influenced that transition, and they would only be nested within that as a minority. Other Cushites had at most mixed economies with the many farming similar to Habash (eating the same things depending on what region), especially among the peripheral regions where you live close to the Habash Christians.
The only way to describe this is that these people had a love for camel on a cultural and traditional level sourced by a central ethnic shared cultural dietary highlight meaning that they were tied to camel herders and ideologically thought of that as the superior meat and animal at the time, whenever through the trade, extensively carried and facilitated by Somalis co-ethnics, they prized the camel meat so got a hold of it and ate it during celebrations and ceremonies. All this can only be from the fact that these people living deep into Ethiopia, and I mean deep as in bordering the Habash, had a history and conception of ethnic emphasis of camel-based pastoralism as a primary cultural marker of what makes them Somali during the medieval age.
There is no way to turn the table outside this for the people in denial. Either these people were Somalis or they were a minority that was so influenced by a predominantly camel-loving people, undoubtedly Somalis, no question, that they took on that trait of loving camel meat when we know those Ethio-Semites, Sidama-like whatever the deniers want to attribute them as, never had such subsistence of camel. They were a sedentary farmer with some cattle and bovid livestock. Either way, Somalis were the predominant demographic in the entire expanse we're discussing in this thread, shown by evidence of how Habash delineated themselves and considered that a Muslim trait.
How can it be generalized as a Muslim food unless the predominant Muslims in the region did not eat it and considered it important to them? And who were those people but Somalis first and foremost? It is all evident. It could not have been the Afar since in terms of population they are no more than a sub-sub-clan of Somalis. In sizable relative terms, the Afar could never be that influential in the region, we find them not markedly relevant with regards to presence, in the regions we are talking about, otherwise we'd see them take a central stage in the Futuh, and later. The Oromos are not in the discussion because they were historical late-comers, something not even worth mentioning unless people are historically uninformed about their role in the region.
Again, this was well known and if anyone wanted to shift the camel to other groups, it would be a futile attempt:
The dromedary is the emblematic animal of the lowlands, as he can carry heavy loads (up to 300 kg) over long distances, and can resist high temperatures and lack of water. Dromedary breeding is usually done in association with small livestock (goats or sheep), both of which tolerate full nomadism, unlike cattle which do not. Samantha Kelly, "A Companion to Medieval Ethiopia and Eritrea" (2020): p. 401-2
All other Ethiopians lived with a combination of what I quote below, excluding only Somalis and Afar in those medieval times:
But lowland pastoralists were of course not the only medieval Ethiopians to tend livestock: highland farmers did as well. The zebu, originally from India and domesticated in antiquity, was a key element of the crop-livestock production system, as a work animal and for its dung that served as fuel and manure. Though poor in milk production, it was also raised for its meat, and the hide was made into leather. Smaller livestock like sheep and goats were also raised for their meat and hides. Sheepskin was often worn as a mantle, while goatskin was the favored material for parchment. Horses and donkeys were used for riding and as load animals. Samantha Kelly, "A Companion to Medieval Ethiopia and Eritrea" (2020): p. 402
The source makes a nefarious presentism error of calling people of geographic modern Ethiopia as "Ethiopians" when no such conception existed back then whatsoever because people mentioned in the source belong to a separate regional entity from the historical Abyssinians and this "Ethiopians" business is to attempt to homogenize and validate towards a Habash-centric Ethiopianist view of the region where they apply such terms to unrelated groups that had different civilizational existence altogether, re-writing history. Other than that, the source points out exactly what is a fact with the consumption of meat similar to the screenshotted source:
Muslim Ethiopians, of course, observed their own food customs, regulations, and rituals, which reinforced the distinctions between these peoples. Dromedary meat, for instance, was eaten exclusively by Muslims: in the early fourteenth century, Ibn Baṭṭūṭa mentioned the massive slaughtering of dromedaries in Zäylaʿ for meat consumption. The Lives of medieval Ethiopian saints also record that captured Christians were urged (and refused) to eat dromedary, as its consumption was understood as synonymous with Muslim identity. Even where meats acceptable to both religions were concerned, the rituals of slaughtering differed, which effectively prevented any commensality between Muslims and Christians as soon as meat was included in the meal. Samantha Kelly, "A Companion to Medieval Ethiopia and Eritrea" (2020): p. 405
I wrote my above analysis of the first excerpt before reading the last aforementioned quoted part, but all ties nicely together and it is consistent and goes nicely with my first camel post. Cool how it neatly fits with how the Islamic civilization was demographically dominated overwhelmingly by Somali people. That is why they made Somali culture synonymous with Islam.
The people who want to deny these facts in light of these substantiating responsive elaborations by the outsiders, not to mention what we conclusively know and have known, have no legs to stand on anymore. There is no excuse but pure personal denialism.
Thomas Guindeuil, "What do Christians (Not) Eat: Food Taboos and the Ethiopian Christian Communities (13th-18th c.)"(2014): p. 66
Pay attention to how the source said neighboring communities. It means even in the far the Somali periphery, showing that Somalis had a presence deep into Ethiopia, so far that on the margins camel meat was very accessible. It shows one important thing if we are to do a serious analysis.
If these were Habash Muslims, they would not have a camel-eating tendency since they never had a camel herder disposition. Logically, one can deduce that the camel is not the predominant animal at all the further you geographically penetrate, thus any love for camel needs to be an ethnographic anthropological emphasis rooted deep to the point that supersedes the environmental constraints. This is why any group that was originally never camel pastoralists, all groups that are not Somali and Afar, could never naturally demand the camel as an important food in the peripheral regions where the camel is not the main livestock available. Unless they shared the same original culture and love for camel, considering the pastoralist aspect as central to their identity despite how they might not be pastoralists even.
The Muslims that live in those Habash areas today do not eat camel meat:
Éloi Ficquet, "Flesh Soaked In Faith," (2006): p. 45
Lij Iyasu, the emperor of Ethiopia, slaughtered a camel to forge some form of political situation between Muslims. Notably, the camel was chosen for the Muslims. To the Christian Ethiopians, its original ethnic association changed toward a purely religious one, when in fact there is nothing in Islam that is generally camel emphasizing in meat consumption compared to cow, goat, and sheep. The fact that those highland Ethiopian Muslims such as Amaharas don't eat camel meat even if it is accessible, underscores my point that argument. So this was never religious in nature, meaning no one can peddle that idea as a way to wiggle away from the fact that it was one of the major Somali meat preferences first and foremost.
Éloi Ficquet, "Flesh Soaked In Faith," (2006): p. 53
Notice the false association between the camel and how important it is for Muslims when it is a tradition of perception by the Christians because of the ethnoreligious association of Somali camel eaters. In their logic from the medieval age: Somalis ate camels --> Somalis were Muslims and the predominant demographic --> thus camel important Muslim diet. Later they falsely as you see above with an emperor trying to form ties with Muslims by slaughtering a camel for symbolism. I wanted to correct the whole thing but either way, this is important evidence of how even down to the modern era, non-Muslims in the region carried a tradition of their own thinking that camel was an important Islamic meat when it was merely important for Somalis.
Rationally the non-Somali Muslim minorities that later became Muslims due to Somali Islamic contact never had a subsistence based on camel flesh consumption given their geography and tendency to herd different animals -- if they ever had love of that, only through the influence of a culture considered more dominant in the region could have influenced that transition, and they would only be nested within that as a minority. Other Cushites had at most mixed economies with the many farming similar to Habash (eating the same things depending on what region), especially among the peripheral regions where you live close to the Habash Christians.
The only way to describe this is that these people had a love for camel on a cultural and traditional level sourced by a central ethnic shared cultural dietary highlight meaning that they were tied to camel herders and ideologically thought of that as the superior meat and animal at the time, whenever through the trade, extensively carried and facilitated by Somalis co-ethnics, they prized the camel meat so got a hold of it and ate it during celebrations and ceremonies. All this can only be from the fact that these people living deep into Ethiopia, and I mean deep as in bordering the Habash, had a history and conception of ethnic emphasis of camel-based pastoralism as a primary cultural marker of what makes them Somali during the medieval age.
There is no way to turn the table outside this for the people in denial. Either these people were Somalis or they were a minority that was so influenced by a predominantly camel-loving people, undoubtedly Somalis, no question, that they took on that trait of loving camel meat when we know those Ethio-Semites, Sidama-like whatever the deniers want to attribute them as, never had such subsistence of camel. They were a sedentary farmer with some cattle and bovid livestock. Either way, Somalis were the predominant demographic in the entire expanse we're discussing in this thread, shown by evidence of how Habash delineated themselves and considered that a Muslim trait.
How can it be generalized as a Muslim food unless the predominant Muslims in the region did not eat it and considered it important to them? And who were those people but Somalis first and foremost? It is all evident. It could not have been the Afar since in terms of population they are no more than a sub-sub-clan of Somalis. In sizable relative terms, the Afar could never be that influential in the region, we find them not markedly relevant with regards to presence, in the regions we are talking about, otherwise we'd see them take a central stage in the Futuh, and later. The Oromos are not in the discussion because they were historical late-comers, something not even worth mentioning unless people are historically uninformed about their role in the region.
Again, this was well known and if anyone wanted to shift the camel to other groups, it would be a futile attempt:
The dromedary is the emblematic animal of the lowlands, as he can carry heavy loads (up to 300 kg) over long distances, and can resist high temperatures and lack of water. Dromedary breeding is usually done in association with small livestock (goats or sheep), both of which tolerate full nomadism, unlike cattle which do not. Samantha Kelly, "A Companion to Medieval Ethiopia and Eritrea" (2020): p. 401-2
All other Ethiopians lived with a combination of what I quote below, excluding only Somalis and Afar in those medieval times:
But lowland pastoralists were of course not the only medieval Ethiopians to tend livestock: highland farmers did as well. The zebu, originally from India and domesticated in antiquity, was a key element of the crop-livestock production system, as a work animal and for its dung that served as fuel and manure. Though poor in milk production, it was also raised for its meat, and the hide was made into leather. Smaller livestock like sheep and goats were also raised for their meat and hides. Sheepskin was often worn as a mantle, while goatskin was the favored material for parchment. Horses and donkeys were used for riding and as load animals. Samantha Kelly, "A Companion to Medieval Ethiopia and Eritrea" (2020): p. 402
The source makes a nefarious presentism error of calling people of geographic modern Ethiopia as "Ethiopians" when no such conception existed back then whatsoever because people mentioned in the source belong to a separate regional entity from the historical Abyssinians and this "Ethiopians" business is to attempt to homogenize and validate towards a Habash-centric Ethiopianist view of the region where they apply such terms to unrelated groups that had different civilizational existence altogether, re-writing history. Other than that, the source points out exactly what is a fact with the consumption of meat similar to the screenshotted source:
Muslim Ethiopians, of course, observed their own food customs, regulations, and rituals, which reinforced the distinctions between these peoples. Dromedary meat, for instance, was eaten exclusively by Muslims: in the early fourteenth century, Ibn Baṭṭūṭa mentioned the massive slaughtering of dromedaries in Zäylaʿ for meat consumption. The Lives of medieval Ethiopian saints also record that captured Christians were urged (and refused) to eat dromedary, as its consumption was understood as synonymous with Muslim identity. Even where meats acceptable to both religions were concerned, the rituals of slaughtering differed, which effectively prevented any commensality between Muslims and Christians as soon as meat was included in the meal. Samantha Kelly, "A Companion to Medieval Ethiopia and Eritrea" (2020): p. 405
I wrote my above analysis of the first excerpt before reading the last aforementioned quoted part, but all ties nicely together and it is consistent and goes nicely with my first camel post. Cool how it neatly fits with how the Islamic civilization was demographically dominated overwhelmingly by Somali people. That is why they made Somali culture synonymous with Islam.
The people who want to deny these facts in light of these substantiating responsive elaborations by the outsiders, not to mention what we conclusively know and have known, have no legs to stand on anymore. There is no excuse but pure personal denialism.
I will come back to this in more detail hopefully but for now I just wanted to say that the Ethiopian Orthodox Church considers camel meat haram. They believe it is 'unclean'.
Do we have any more info about all these different sub-clans or any special narratives relating to Somali history, the Adal sultanate, Imam Ahmad, etc? It would be nice to have more positive evidence not only evidence to narrow things down.
I know there are also at least three Silte clans of Somali descent and many many Afar ones.
The alchemist
VIP
I went into that whole thing. The Abyssinians made taboos about the tendencies of Somalis as they were Muslims and a competing regional power to delineate themselves markedly. The broader orthodox church doctrines do not have such prohibition, but the Habash have it because they associated it with the Muslims. They did the same for coffee and khat. The Europeans tried to come and lift prohibitions to fit in line with the food practices of the Europeans back in the medieval days. There is literature that documents this.
Yami
4th Emir of the Akh Right Movement
We need to reclaim coffee from these people. Them being associate with it when coffee drinking was taboo up until the early 20th century is such BS
NidarNidar
Punisher
We heavily drink coffee in my family, also coffee is important in reducing dopamine leakage in people who carry the warrior gene(rs4680) as well as having a high protein diet.
Deuteronomy 14:7
Yet of those that chew the cud or have the hoof cloven you shall not eat these: the camel, the hare, and the rock badger, because they chew the cud but do not part the hoof, are unclean for you.
Last edited:
Step a side
VIP
Check this gem!
Italian ecologist and professor Marco Vigano went to search for ancient Hobat, Dhakar etc. His work is literally used by the Ethiopian official travel guide. The same ancient structures and fortresses found in Dir Dawa and Addis were found there. They also found old masajids.
Qundhura aka Kundudo is the epicentre of Hoobat. The Ethio-Semite stuff is fake
. Only Somalis and proto Somalis lived here. Hawiye and Karanle are both buried in Qundhura/ Kundudo next to each other.As for the Maya here is some stuff about them as well as Gasare and Karara.
Trending
-
-
A madow guy with yusuf7n dp disses a Colombian girl & she cooks yusuf & it got 143,000 + likes on twitter.- Started by samira24
- Replies: 52
-
An Arab goes on a racist rant against us & calls us abeėds & happy that we are slaves in Libya.
- Started by samira24
- Replies: 44
