Federation V Confederation

[Fisherman 75]

Federation - small states are organized by a central government. Each individual states manages their internal affairs. The central government outweighs the state governments.

Confederation - Like federation, but the centralized government is weaker than the local governments.

In the case of Somalia, FGS is calling for federalism. Puntland state of Somalia is calling for confederation, where PL has more power than the FGS.

 

[DR OSMAN]

Federation - small states are organized by a central government. Each individual states manages their internal affairs. The central government outweighs the state governments.

Confederation - Like federation, but the centralized government is weaker than the local governments.

In the case of Somalia, FGS is calling for federalism. Puntland state of Somalia is calling for confederation, where PL has more power than the FGS.

Puntland is older then the SFG how can it have less power? Besides you act like federation and confederation are static models worldwide when infact each system is on a spectrum and not implemented the same worldwide. Since Somalia is in post civil war recovery and trust is at all time low it has been agreed that the federal govt should be symbolic and the state's exercise most control.

 

[Fisherman 75]

Puntland is older then the SFG how can it have less power? Besides you act like federation and confederation are static models worldwide when infact each system is on a spectrum and not implemented the same worldwide. Since Somalia is in post civil war recovery and trust is at all time low it has been agreed that the federal govt should be symbolic and the state's exercise most control.

Why does PL being older than the FGS mean it should have greater power? Also, FGS = official Somali government. It is just a continuation of the Somali republic. It may have a different name and political system but it is still the countries' top governing entity. Therefore PL is not older than the SFG.

A country, particularly an African one, will always be a failure if the central government is weaker than 4 or 5 federal member states each being controlled by different foreign groups. That is what the 2012 constitution, written and pushed by TPLF, called for.

 

[DR OSMAN]

After the fall of the central govt. Somalis agreed never again an all powerful central govt. Mogadishu is a graveyard their is no way anyone is giving any govt there any power over its region. This is reality. No-one has any confidence in beesha hawiye is the reality. If we shifted the capital and federal govt elsewhere without such horrendous past but even then no Somali will accept another siyad barre style govt ever again.

Their just to much negatives to even entertain a strong central govt in any political discussion. Any signs of a central govt will even cause balkinization and separate countries to emerge.

 

[Pastoralist]

Confederation is a thing of the past. Out of 260 countries there is only one which has successfully carried this out and it’s much more stable than Somalia. Federalism is the way to go, but give puntland the power it deserves in our model government. They should have all the same say, weapons, and capabilities as the federal gov, as they made it possible. The other states, are all under AS, and one is an illegal junta which refuses to hold elections and has been in power for 10+ years, so they can f*ck off.

 

[DR OSMAN]

Confederation is a thing of the past. Out of 260 countries there is only one which has successfully carried this out and it’s much more stable than Somalia. Federalism is the way to go, but give puntland the power it deserves in our model government. They should have all the same say, weapons, and capabilities as the federal gov, as they made it possible. The other states, are all under AS, and one is an illegal junta which refuses to hold elections and has been in power for 10+ years, so they can f*ck off.

I don't know if I should laugh or get mad when people are entertaining another siyad barre style govt of centralism. Repeating siyad barre centralization will only generate his outcomes also. If Somalis want centralization also tell the people truth that their will be state collapse within 10 years and even shorter then siyad barre who lasted longer due to the fact he had the strongest army in Africa.

Repeating a state structure like siyad barre govt will also repeat his state collapse. Why dont hawiye tell their people the truth. If PL sees anything leaning towards centralization it will begin the balkanization option rather then enter another state collapse. It will resort to save what you can if you couldn't save somalia political posture.

 

[FBIsomalia]

Why does PL being older than the FGS mean it should have greater power? Also, FGS = official Somali government. It is just a continuation of the Somali republic. It may have a different name and political system but it is still the countries' top governing entity. Therefore PL is not older than the SFG.

A country, particularly an African one, will always be a failure if the central government is weaker than 4 or 5 federal member states each being controlled by different foreign groups. That is what the 2012 constitution, written and pushed by TPLF, called for.

Carta dastuur brought stabilty to Somalia, but 2024 HAG dastuur is Kacaan 2.0 that will let Somalia enter civil war.

South Somalia should first start to govern their lands and start working to free lands before advice others to change dastuur?

What is your valid points to change it? You will say paper state!, thanks to you guys xamar control them as used to be pre 1991, if its eduction or health, that is why you dont see any ministry meeting in their capitals like PL do ,and those as federal system part of state level not xamar.

You guys didnt implement nothing of federal system and argue about it.

Lets us see who will work on HAG dastuur if HAG part of them love to lifeTalibaan style like Alkabaab!.

 

[cow]

Federation - small states are organized by a central government. Each individual states manages their internal affairs. The central government outweighs the state governments.

Confederation - Like federation, but the centralized government is weaker than the local governments.

In the case of Somalia, FGS is calling for federalism. Puntland state of Somalia is calling for confederation, where PL has more power than the FGS.

FgS waa goof abgaal sxb let's not kid ourselves.

Every important position in the government is filled by abgaal. Everyone is a guest to the abgaal government

 

[cow]

I don't know if I should laugh or get mad when people are entertaining another siyad barre style govt of centralism. Repeating siyad barre centralization will only generate his outcomes also. If Somalis want centralization also tell the people truth that their will be state collapse within 10 years and even shorter then siyad barre who lasted longer due to the fact he had the strongest army in Africa.

Repeating a state structure like siyad barre govt will also repeat his state collapse. Why dont hawiye tell their people the truth. If PL sees anything leaning towards centralization it will begin the balkanization option rather then enter another state collapse. It will resort to save what you can if you couldn't save somalia political posture.

@DR OSMAN don't compare ulusow who is babysat inside mogadishu by Amisom to siyad barre AUN.

 

[Hassan Garguute Buldanana]

At this point, I want neither. I view FGS as enemy and want it to collapse. All donor to withdraw support and everyman for himself.

 

[RiceMuncher]

At this point, I want neither. I view FGS as enemy and want it to collapse. All donor to withdraw support and everyman for himself.

Cue all the xabasho reading this

 

[DALMAR0_0]

I don't know if I should laugh or get mad when people are entertaining another siyad barre style govt of centralism. Repeating siyad barre centralization will only generate his outcomes also. If Somalis want centralization also tell the people truth that their will be state collapse within 10 years and even shorter then siyad barre who lasted longer due to the fact he had the strongest army in Africa.

Repeating a state structure like siyad barre govt will also repeat his state collapse. Why dont hawiye tell their people the truth. If PL sees anything leaning towards centralization it will begin the balkanization option rather then enter another state collapse. It will resort to save what you can if you couldn't save somalia political posture.

So wats the alternative? Because it isnt federalism for sure...somalis will always turn federalism into a clan confederations that are used as cash cow for corrupt politicians..

Also centralization doesnt have to be exactly like kacaan centralization...we can come with a centralization that avoids the flaws with the kacaan government.
We can find alternatives that arent only from the status quo

 

[FBIsomalia]

So wats the alternative? Because it isnt federalism for sure...somalis will always turn federalism into a clan confederations that are used as cash cow for corrupt politicians..

Also centralization doesnt have to be exactly like kacaan centralization...we can come with a centralization that avoids the flaws with the kacaan government.
We can find alternatives that arent only from the status quo

Do you see current ruler of xamar any different then Kacaan?

 

[Gemstone]

Any system can work if duties and rights are universal, expected, and realised by every mother's child. Let us start there and systematically eliminate the common denominators of anarchy.

@DR OSMAN you would have to do the walk of shame for not staying true to your duties.