Did the Ajurans ever control the Banadir coast?

[HabarSteven12]

Is there any historical proof to demonstrate that the Ajurans once controlled the Banadir coast? Historically, the Banadir region stretched from Mogadishu all the way to Kismayo.

Could anyone name the hereditary kings or ruling elite within the monarchy or throne that ruled the Banadir coast? Could they demonstrate any eyewitness accounts showing the presence of the Ajurans on the Banadir coast?

There are no ruins, ancient mosques, or gravesites visible with inscriptions pointing out the dates and names to confirm that the Ajurans once controlled and ruled the Banadir coast.

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

Nope , nobody can prove Ajuran Gareen controlling the coast, they only had connections with the local ruling dynasties of the coast , the earliest ajuran gareen on the coast would be the ones in moorsho alliance who arrived after their rule in the interior fell

 

[attash]

"Traditions say that the Ajuran governed from Qallafo on the upper Shebelle river, to the Indian ocean coast, and from Mareg, in the extreme north of the Benaadir, to the Jubba river in the south. To this legendary people are attributed a great variety of technological marvels; large stone wells, many of which still are used throughout the Southern Somali interior; systems of dikes and dams for irrigation along the Shebelle and huge houses and fortifications of stone." - Cerulli, Enrico "How a Hawiye tribe used to live"

The origin of the Ajuran and their defeat by Baadicadde and Gaaljecel

The origin of the Aguran. “There formerly lived in the country six men born from two different women: three from one mother and three from one mother and all from one single father. Their father wa…

banadirobservatory.wordpress.com

There also exist Ajuuraan ruins in Mareeg and Gondershe.

The main eye-witness source from this time period is Ibn Battuta, but we went through that already. You would rather say the Sultan Ibn Battuta was talking about was a Bantu than a Somali .

 

[HabarSteven12]

"Traditions say that the Ajuran governed from Qallafo on the upper Shebelle river, to the Indian ocean coast, and from Mareg, in the extreme north of the Benaadir, to the Jubba river in the south. To this legendary people are attributed a great variety of technological marvels; large stone wells, many of which still are used throughout the Southern Somali interior; systems of dikes and dams for irrigation along the Shebelle and huge houses and fortifications of stone." - Cerulli, Enrico "How a Hawiye tribe used to live"

The origin of the Ajuran and their defeat by Baadicadde and Gaaljecel

The origin of the Aguran. “There formerly lived in the country six men born from two different women: three from one mother and three from one mother and all from one single father. Their father wa…

banadirobservatory.wordpress.com

There also exist Ajuuraan ruins in Mareeg and Gondershe.

View attachment 308528


The main eye-witness source from this time period is Ibn Battuta, but we went through that already. You would rather say the Sultan Ibn Battuta was talking about was a Bantu than a Somali .

Abu Bakr ibn Shaykh Umar was from the Fakrudin Dynasty, which was the ruling elite of Mogadishu at the time. They were not Somalis. You don't even know his qabil. If he was Somali, then what was his qabil? Ibn Battuta was referring to the Banadiri people in Mogadishu, not Somalis.

You still haven't demonstrated any historical documents or primary sources to show Ajuran ruled the Banadir coast. The historical Banadir region stretched from Mogadishu all the way to Kismayo. I never asked about Mareeg. Did Ajuran rule the Banadir coast? You showed me a source that doesn't even speak about the Banadir coast, and it doesn't objectively or comprehensively detail the Ajurans presence on the Banadir coast.

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

"Traditions say that the Ajuran governed from Qallafo on the upper Shebelle river, to the Indian ocean coast, and from Mareg, in the extreme north of the Benaadir, to the Jubba river in the south. To this legendary people are attributed a great variety of technological marvels; large stone wells, many of which still are used throughout the Southern Somali interior; systems of dikes and dams for irrigation along the Shebelle and huge houses and fortifications of stone." - Cerulli, Enrico "How a Hawiye tribe used to live"

The origin of the Ajuran and their defeat by Baadicadde and Gaaljecel

The origin of the Aguran. “There formerly lived in the country six men born from two different women: three from one mother and three from one mother and all from one single father. Their father wa…

banadirobservatory.wordpress.com

No mention of any ajuran gareen ruler ruling anywhere on banaadir coast

There also exist Ajuuraan ruins in Mareeg and Gondershe.

View attachment 308528

That picture is the island in gendershe where Sheikh Cuthman bin Faqih Cumar Al Xadhrami is buried and where his descendants inhabitated, nothing to do with ajuran gareen and no source can prove that.

The main eye-witness source from this time period is Ibn Battuta, but we went through that already. You would rather say the Sultan Ibn Battuta was talking about was a Bantu than a Somali .

No evidence of the sultan being ajuran gareen, the gareens in muqdisho weren't even there since ibn batutta's era, they were still in their homeland

 

[attash]

No mention of any ajuran gareen ruler ruling anywhere on banaadir coast

That’s literally what the source said, can you read? It’s like I’m arguing with a bot lol.

Also, it is completely ridiculous to suggest that the Ajuuraan, the most powerful state in the region equipped with a modern rifle wielding army that was capable of defeating the Oromos at the height of their expansion, had nothing to do with the Benaadir coast. The Benaadir coast was the richest part of the region, why would the Ajuuraan leave it alone? It simply doesn’t make sense.

That picture is the island in gendershe where Sheikh Cuthman bin Faqih Cumar Al Xadhrami is buried and where his descendants inhabitated, nothing to do with ajuran gareen and no source can prove that.

“On the local level, lineage segments might opt into the larger confederation for military, labor-sharing, or resource-sharing reasons; others might be compelled to pay tribute in order to gain access to watering sites controlled by the Ajuran. The state also incorporated groups of riverine cultivators that were settled at various places along the Shabeelle from Qallaafo in the north to Torre in the southeast, near Baraawe. These cultivators probably formed the bulk of the servile labor force that was conscripted to construct the dikes and canals popularly attributed to the Ajuran period.” -

Cerulli, Enrico "How a Hawiye tribe used to live"

The origin of the Ajuran and their defeat by Baadicadde and Gaaljecel

The origin of the Aguran. “There formerly lived in the country six men born from two different women: three from one mother and three from one mother and all from one single father. Their father wa…

banadirobservatory.wordpress.com

Ceel Toore was another name for Gondershe.

No evidence of the sultan being ajuran gareen, the gareens in muqdisho weren't even there since ibn batutta's era, they were still in their homeland

I don’t claim that the Sultan was Gareen, he may have been one of their many vassals, he may not have been. I only said that In Battuta was the main eyewitness source from that time period. From his account, we know that the Sultan of that time period was a Somali, that’s it.

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

That’s literally what the source said, can you read? It’s like I’m arguing with a bot lol.

Also, it is completely ridiculous to suggest that the Ajuuraan, the most powerful state in the region equipped with a modern rifle wielding army that was capable of defeating the Oromos at the height of their expansion, had nothing to do with the Benaadir coast. The Benaadir coast was the richest part of the region, why would the Ajuuraan leave it alone? It simply doesn’t make sense.

I never said they had nothing to do with Banaadir, ofc there were trade relations between inhabitants of the coast and ajuran gareens, even ajuran gareen moved into xamarweyne and still live there so that shows there was a connection.

“On the local level, lineage segments might opt into the larger confederation for military, labor-sharing, or resource-sharing reasons; others might be compelled to pay tribute in order to gain access to watering sites controlled by the Ajuran. The state also incorporated groups of riverine cultivators that were settled at various places along the Shabeelle from Qallaafo in the north to Torre in the southeast, near Baraawe. These cultivators probably formed the bulk of the servile labor force that was conscripted to construct the dikes and canals popularly attributed to the Ajuran period.” -

Cerulli, Enrico "How a Hawiye tribe used to live"

The origin of the Ajuran and their defeat by Baadicadde and Gaaljecel

The origin of the Aguran. “There formerly lived in the country six men born from two different women: three from one mother and three from one mother and all from one single father. Their father wa…

banadirobservatory.wordpress.com

Ceel Toore was another name for Gondershe.

Nope, ceel toore is a complete different town further down south, and it's Gandarshe*. Ceel Toore is another name for Toore which was one of the Tunni Toore confederacy towns. Your source is basically claiming that Tunni Toore were slaves/clients for ajuran gareen that's a big claim with no evidence , however amongst Kumow, one of Tunni Toore clans , there's a subclan called Maaden who claim to be from Maadanle that originally resided in modern day Bay prior to their wars with Eelay. That would be the only known connection with Ajuran Gareen since Maadanle were allied with Ajuran Gareen .

I don’t claim that the Sultan was Gareen, he may have been one of their many vassals, he may not have been. I only said that In Battuta was the main eyewitness source from that time period. From his account, we know that the Sultan of that time period was a Somali, that’s it.

Nope, that's just guesswork that hoteps started, if he was reer samaale then there would be banadiri sources stating that. There's no evidence to even prove samaale presence in xamar during that era let alone to prove that they were in power.

 

[attash]

I never said they had nothing to do with Banaadir, ofc there were trade relations between inhabitants of the coast and ajuran gareens, even ajuran gareen moved into xamarweyne and still live there so that shows there was a connection.

Nope, ceel toore is a complete different town further down south, and it's Gandarshe*. Ceel Toore is another name for Toore which was one of the Tunni Toore confederacy towns. Your source is basically claiming that Tunni Toore were slaves/clients for ajuran gareen that's a big claim with no evidence , however amongst Kumow, one of Tunni Toore clans , there's a subclan called Maaden who claim to be from Maadanle that originally resided in modern day Bay prior to their wars with Eelay. That would be the only known connection with Ajuran Gareen since Maadanle were allied with Ajuran Gareen .

You're right, Ceel Toore is a different town, my bad. It's still located on the Benaadir coast though. Also, to say that the Tunni were clients of the Ajuuraan isn't that big of a claim to make. The Hawiye, in all their size and might, were reduced to being clients of the Ajuuraan, I don't see why that can't be the case for the Tunni.

Nope, that's just guesswork that hoteps started, if he was reer samaale then there would be banadiri sources stating that. There's no evidence to even prove samaale presence in xamar during that era let alone to prove that they were in power.

It ain't guesswork, the source clearly indicates this. Also, the Hawiye presence in the Benaadir at this time is very well established. Al Idrisi (12th century) says that the Hawiye occupied the region between Xaafuun and Marka. Ibn Sa'id (13th century) says that the Hawiye had their capital in Marka and lived in 50 villages on the "nile of Mogadishu", that is the Shabeelle. Given the fact that "reEr sAmAaLe" (I don't know why you are allergic to the word "Somali" lmao) clearly lived in the region Mogadishu is located in, there is no reason to deny that they lived in Mogadishu itself.

Also, if your Banaadiri sources are so meticulous, could you tell me exactly which Sultan was ruling Mogadishu in 1331 and what his ethnicity was, according to your Benaadiri sources?

 

[Emir of Zayla]

Is there any historical proof to demonstrate that the Ajurans once controlled the Banadir coast? Historically, the Banadir region stretched from Mogadishu all the way to Kismayo.

Could anyone name the hereditary kings or ruling elite within the monarchy or throne that ruled the Banadir coast? Could they demonstrate any eyewitness accounts showing the presence of the Ajurans on the Banadir coast?

There are no ruins, ancient mosques, or gravesites visible with inscriptions pointing out the dates and names to confirm that the Ajurans once controlled and ruled the Banadir coast.

Who seriously debates this? This is ridiculous.

 

[killerxsmoke]

Is there any historical proof to demonstrate that the Ajurans once controlled the Banadir coast? Historically, the Banadir region stretched from Mogadishu all the way to Kismayo.

Could anyone name the hereditary kings or ruling elite within the monarchy or throne that ruled the Banadir coast? Could they demonstrate any eyewitness accounts showing the presence of the Ajurans on the Banadir coast?

There are no ruins, ancient mosques, or gravesites visible with inscriptions pointing out the dates and names to confirm that the Ajurans once controlled and ruled the Banadir coast.

Marka was their capital city lol

 

[killerxsmoke]

Abu Bakr ibn Shaykh Umar was from the Fakrudin Dynasty, which was the ruling elite of Mogadishu at the time. They were not Somalis. You don't even know his qabil. If he was Somali, then what was his qabil? Ibn Battuta was referring to the Banadiri people in Mogadishu, not Somalis.

You still haven't demonstrated any historical documents or primary sources to show Ajuran ruled the Banadir coast. The historical Banadir region stretched from Mogadishu all the way to Kismayo. I never asked about Mareeg. Did Ajuran rule the Banadir coast? You showed me a source that doesn't even speak about the Banadir coast, and it doesn't objectively or comprehensively detail the Ajurans presence on the Banadir coast.

Sorry to burst your bubble but berbera dont mean benadiri it means somali, so the sultan was somali end of story

 

[HabarSteven12]

Sorry to burst your bubble but berbera dont mean benadiri it means somali, so the sultan was somali end of story

You don't even know his subclan, so how could he be Somali? I already showed that Abu Bakr ibn Shaykh Umar was from the Fakrudin Dynasty, which was the ruling elite of Mogadishu at the time. They were not Somalis. Ibn Battuta witnessed the same cultural norms and customary greetings that he witnessed in Yemen from Abu Bakr. All those indicators show he wasn't Somali.

The term barbara itself is ambiguous and inconclusive. We don't know for certain who exactly it refers to all the time.

 

[Emir of Zayla]

You don't even know his subclan, so how could he be Somali?

What Benadiri clan was he really from then? You must know since you’re talking about it yes?

I already showed that Abu Bakr ibn Shaykh Umar was from the Fakrudin Dynasty, which was the ruling elite of Mogadishu at the time. They were not Somalis.

We have shown you on this forum time and time again that they were Somali, everyone knows that you’re a troll who’s anti-somali.

Ibn Battuta witnessed the same cultural norms and customary greetings that he witnessed in Yemen from Abu Bakr. All those indicators show he wasn't Somali.

Having the same greetings ≠ being not Somali. What kind of stupid thought process is this?

The term barbara itself is ambiguous and inconclusive. We don't know for certain who exactly it refers to all the time.

It’s agreed upon by all scholars who study Somali history that Berber/Barbar is Somali, I have not seen a single scholar who’s successfully proven otherwise. You know this too, but still continue on arguing like a stubborn moron.

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/the-word-%E2%80%9Cberber-barbar%E2%80%9D-may-not-be-from-greek-but-from-an-ancient-egyptian-ethnonym-for-the-puntites.156704/

 

[HabarSteven12]

Marka was their capital city lol

Ibn Said Al-Maghribi never stated that Marka was the capital of Hawiye. You deliberately mistranslated his statement. Ibn Said said, “It‘s people are Muslims, and it is at the feet of the canyon or cliff, which overlooks 50 villages.” Read the full Arabic translation below. The Arabic word هاوية, or haawiyah, means cliff or canyon. The word قاعدة means base or foot. ينيف/تنيف doesn't mean control. It means to overlook or oversee.
"وهي قاعدة الهاوية التي تنيف على ٥٠ قرية"

 

[attash]

You don't even know his subclan, so how could he be Somali? I already showed that Abu Bakr ibn Shaykh Umar was from the Fakrudin Dynasty, which was the ruling elite of Mogadishu at the time. They were not Somalis. Ibn Battuta witnessed the same cultural norms and customary greetings that he witnessed in Yemen from Abu Bakr. All those indicators show he wasn't Somali.

The desperation wallahi . I am currently wearing a macawiis, an article of clothing from Yemen. Does this mean I am Yemeni as well?

The term barbara itself is ambiguous and inconclusive. We don't know for certain who exactly it refers to all the time.

It certainly did not refer to the Arabs lol.

 

[Zak12]

You don't even know his subclan, so how could he be Somali? I already showed that Abu Bakr ibn Shaykh Umar was from the Fakrudin Dynasty, which was the ruling elite of Mogadishu at the time. They were not Somalis. Ibn Battuta witnessed the same cultural norms and customary greetings that he witnessed in Yemen from Abu Bakr. All those indicators show he wasn't Somali.

The term barbara itself is ambiguous and inconclusive. We don't know for certain who exactly it refers to all the time.

Pure desperation. There isn't enough good evidence to prove the rulers of Mogadishu were Arabs. Ibn Battuta gives the clearest account of medieval Mogadishu and he flat out states the sultan spoke another language besides Arabic.

 

[Emir of Zayla]

Ibn Said Al-Maghribi never stated that Marka was the capital of Hawiye. You deliberately mistranslated his statement. Ibn Said said, “It‘s people are Muslims, and it is at the feet of the canyon or cliff, which overlooks 50 villages.” Read the full Arabic translation below. The Arabic word هاوية, or haawiyah, means cliff or canyon. The word قاعدة means base or foot. ينيف/تنيف doesn't mean control. It means to overlook or oversee.
"وهي قاعدة الهاوية التي تنيف على ٥٠ قرية"

Could you get anymore desperate?

 

[attash]

You don't even know his subclan, so how could he be Somali? I already showed that Abu Bakr ibn Shaykh Umar was from the Fakrudin Dynasty, which was the ruling elite of Mogadishu at the time. They were not Somalis. Ibn Battuta witnessed the same cultural norms and customary greetings that he witnessed in Yemen from Abu Bakr. All those indicators show he wasn't Somali.

The term barbara itself is ambiguous and inconclusive. We don't know for certain who exactly it refers to all the time.

Serious question: what got you started on your quest to erase Somali history? Perhaps you can tell us once your trolling phase is over, we would really like to know sometime.

 

[Zak12]

Serious question: what got you started on your quest to erase Somali history? Perhaps you can tell us once your trolling phase is over, we would really like to know sometime.

He's incapable of understanding occam's razor. To him, every aspect of a historical figure must be documented right down to their sub clan, even though there are tons of Somali figures whom we don't even know what their clan are

 

[HabarSteven12]

Could you get anymore desperate?
View attachment 308663

Okay, so refute what I said that was wrong. You are the same guy who used a Wikipedia quote to supposedly refute me. You are one heck of a troll.