Democracy is the worst thing for Somalia!

[jugjugwacwac]

Many people think democracy is the best form of government for the Somali people because Somali culture has traditionally been rooted in an egalitarian and democratic ethos, where all men (except those from outcast clans) were equal and given a say in political matters. What these people don't realize is, that it's this extreme freedom from any coercive power that has always been our Achilles heal. The unlimited freedoms enjoyed by the nomadic Somali clans was and still is the root cause of the anarchy and internecine fratricidal wars in Somalia. So to expect democratic governance in Somalia to bring to an end the very ills which itself facilitates and entrenches in a society like ours is insane.When every sub-sub-clan has political aspirations, and begins throwing a fit or even threatening the peace when it doesn't win or get its way, we will never ever have a functioning state.

It's clear that Somalis don't need more democracy and more political freedom, we need way way less of it. The only way we can have a Somalia we will all be proud of is through a no non-sense authoritarian state that forcefully gets the clans in line, stamps out corruption, initiates industrialization and the modernization of our farming, livestock and fishery sectors, protects Somalia's territorial and political sovereignty and eliminates any elements, such as selfish and treacherous siyaasis, suldaans/garaads and wadaads, that threaten the unity of the Somali people and cohesion of the state.

 

[Bahal]

Many people think democracy is the best form of government for the Somali people because Somali culture has traditionally been rooted in an egalitarian and democratic ethos, where all men (except those from outcast clans) were equal and given a say in political matters. What these people don't realize is, that it's this extreme freedom from any coercive power that has always been our Achilles heal. The unlimited freedoms enjoyed by the nomadic Somali clans was and still is the root cause of the anarchy and internecine fratricidal wars in Somalia. So to expect democratic governance in Somalia to bring to an end the very ills which itself facilitates and entrenches in a society like ours is insane.

Just look at the parliamentary elections of 1969, right before Siyaad Barre took power in a bloodless coup, in which 64 political parties, each representing a subclan, were vying for seats. Or just look at the federal system, where each maamul goboleed represents the interests of its own clan and goes full geel-jire on other maamul goboleeds. Recently we had Puntland (MJ) vs Galmudug (HG) resulting in countless dead and injured, and neither of these maamuls (really just savage clans doing what they do best) could be reigned in by the so-called central government. When every sub-sub-clan has political aspirations, and begins throwing a fit or even threatening the peace when it doesn't win or gets its way, we will never ever have a functioning state.

It's clear that Somalis don't need more democracy and more political freedom, we need way way less of it. The only way we can have a Somalia we will all be proud of is through a no non-sense authoritarian state that forcefully gets the clans in line, stamps out corruption, initiates industrialization and the modernization of our farming, livestock and fishery sectors, protects Somalia's territorial and political sovereignty and eliminates any elements, such as selfish and treacherous siyaasis, suldaans/garaads and wadaads, that threaten the unity of the Somali people and cohesion of the state.

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

This is the reality of democracy in countries like Somalia.

 

[merka]

Somalia had democracy and it was shit. Somalia had dictatorship and it was shit. Maybe the problem isn't the political system.

 

[Bahal]

Somalia had democracy and it was shit. Somalia had dictatorship and it was shit. Maybe the problem isn't the political system.

Democracy isn't simply voting for individuals, it is a system where there are actual political ideologies.

For example, can you tell me what ideological differences there are between the political parties in Somaliland? Are there conservative vs liberal wings?

Or is it vote for me because we belong to the same subclan?

 

[jugjugwacwac]

Somalis are sick of gutless politicians getting fat from the public coffers, we're tired of so called politicians who are nothing but ethiopian and Kenyan prostitutes oo bac la'aan lagu waso, we're tired of vote buying and voting and the entire illegitimate political process itself for that matter, we're tired of suldaans/wadaads/ugaases who incite clan wars, we're tired of the Arabization of our culture and the disproportionate influence of these crazed Wahhabi wadaads foaming at the mouth, we're tired of no jobs, lack of infrastructure, we're tired of droughts.....we're fucking tired.

Waa lakala bixi doonaa, and Somalia will soon have its Brexit and Donald Trump moment. Woe to the current crop in power on that day.

 

[merka]

Democracy isn't simply voting for individuals, it is a system where there are actual political ideologies.

For example, can you tell me what ideological differences there are between the political parties in Somaliland? Are there conservative vs liberal wings?

Or is it vote for me because we belong to the same subclan?

Look at US political parties after independence. There weren't any ideological differences between the parties back then. It takes time for political parties to mature and have their own ideologies.

Over time clan politics will decrease as people will depend on institutions instead of clans.

The problem with dictatorship is that once the dictator leaves there will be a power vacuum as there's no mechanism for who will take over.

 

[jugjugwacwac]

Look at US political parties after independence. There weren't any ideological differences between the parties back then. It takes time for political parties to mature and have their own ideologies.

Over time clan politics will decrease as people will depend on institutions instead of clans.

The problem with dictatorship is that once the dictator leaves there will be a power vacuum as there's no mechanism for who will take over.

Who says there has to be a power vacuum? Of course there would be a process in place to choose a new leader that would ensure a seamless transition.

 

[Mudug-Madman]

The only way we can have a Somalia we will all be proud of is through a no non-sense authoritarian state that forcefully gets the clans in line, stamps out corruption, initiates industrialization and the modernization of our farming, livestock and fishery sectors, protects Somalia's territorial and political sovereignty and eliminates any elements, such as selfish and treacherous siyaasis, suldaans/garaads and wadaads, that threaten the unity of the Somali people and cohesion of the state.

And if they don't do that? If they just loot the country bare, enrich themselves, and sell out to foreign interests? All while oppressing the people? How do you get rid of them?

That's the problem with dictatorship.

 

[Bahal]

Look at US political parties after independence. There weren't any ideological differences between the parties back then. It takes time for political parties to mature and have their own ideologies.

Over time clan politics will decrease as people will depend on institutions instead of clans.

The problem with dictatorship is that once the dictator leaves there will be a power vacuum as there's no mechanism for who will take over.

Clan politics will never decrease unless the institution of clan itself is totally destroyed.

There is no logical reason for a <20 million, homogeneous people to be so divided. It is clan itself that creates artificial divisions, which in turn dooms the Somali race to fragmentation until the subsubsubsubsub clan level.

A dictatorship is of course not ideal, but it is an unfortunate necessity. Otherwise, we will revert to the pre-kacaan system (or the current SFG catastrophe) that only exacerbates and entrenches the very institution we seek to destroy through poisonous identity politics.

@Duchess would rather vote for a bum MJ than a PhD holding Isaaq, and @waraabe vice versa.

 

[jugjugwacwac]

And if they don't do that? If they just loot the country bare, enrich themselves, and sell out to foreign interests? All while oppressing the people? How do you get rid of them?

That's the problem with dictatorship.

I guess I wasn't clear about the type of dictatorship I envision. I am not talking about fascism, where the glory of the state is an end in itself and everything else, including the people, is just a means to this end. Nor am I taking about the type of dictatorship where the leader, his power and the continuation of his monopoly on power is the end like in the monarchies of the Khaliij. I'm talking about an authoritarian state where the leader and his council/advisers/ministers are working in the service of the people, and if they violate this mandate they will be removed by the military, which will be an institution independent from the government and that stands as a symbol and enforcer of the common good of the people. So in my state the common good of the people is the end, and the state and the government are just a means to this end. No leader would be above the nationalist aims of the nation state.

 

[merka]

Who says there has to be a power vacuum? Of course there would be a process in place to choose a new leader that would ensure a seamless transition.

How would you choose the leader? Voting is the better solution since no one can go against the majority.

You can have a strong leader while still being a democracy. Many countries operate that way. The US president has significant more executive power than the UK PM for example.

 

[Bahal]

I guess I wasn't clear about the type of dictatorship I envision. I am not talking about fascism, where the glory of the state is an end in itself and everything else, including the people, is just a means to this end. Nor am I taking about the type of dictatorship where the leader, his power and the continuation of his monopoly on power is the end. I'm talking about an authoritarian state where the leader and his council/advisers/ministers are working in the service of the people, and if they violate this mandate they will be removed by the army, who will remain independent from government and stand as a symbol and enforcer of the common good of the people. So in my state the common good of the people is the end, and the state and the government are just a means to this end. No leader would be above the nationalist aims of the nation state.

The People's Greater Somali Republic

 

[Mudug-Madman]

I guess I wasn't clear about the type of dictatorship I envision. I am not talking about fascism, where the glory of the state is an end in itself and everything else, including the people, is just a means to this end. Nor am I taking about the type of dictatorship where the leader, his power and the continuation of his monopoly on power is the end. I'm talking about an authoritarian state where the leader and his council/advisers/ministers are working in the service of the people, and if they violate this mandate they will be removed by the army, who will remain independent from government and stand as a symbol and enforcer of the common good of the people. So in my state the common good of the people is the end, and the state and the government are just a means to this end. No leader would be above the nationalist aims of the nation state.

That's the problem with authoritarianism, you can't really choose. You're at the mercy of whatever the government decides to do. In theory you system works, in practice it's a whole 'nother story. Tell me, do you know of one Somali group, leader, or prominent person you entrust to carry out this system?

At least with democracy you can vote these people out when they get out of line.

 

[Bahal]

How would you choose the leader? Voting is the better solution since no one can go against the majority.

You can have a strong leader while still being a democracy. Many countries operate that way. The US president has significant more executive power than the UK PM for example.

I propose a junta comprised of individuals from the major clans who are focused solely on equitable economic development. I genuinely believe economic growth alone would be enough to bury qabiil forever.

People cling to qabiil because it is often a safety net. If you give the average man a job, ensure his children can be educated, provide basic services, and give him a society that makes social mobility a possibility, what does he need his useless clan for?

Let's get back to the basics, give the people bread and circuses kkkkkkk

 

[jugjugwacwac]

How would you choose the leader? Voting is the better solution since no one can go against the majority.

You can have a strong leader while still being a democracy. Many countries operate that way. The US president has significant more executive power than the UK PM for example.

Have you heard of the tyranny of the majority? Also, what makes you think the majority know whats best for the nation? Half of the people on earth are by definition to the left of the IQ bell-curve, that in itself is the biggest reason to abandon democracy.

In the government I envision a council of educated nationalists of about 10-15 members would choose the leader. All the main clan families would be represented in the council.

 

[jugjugwacwac]

I propose a junta comprised of individuals from the major clans who are focused solely on equitable economic development. I genuinely believe economic growth alone would be enough to bury qabiil forever.

People cling to qabiil because it is often a safety net. If you give the average man a job, ensure his children can be educated, provide basic services, and give him a society that makes social mobility a possibility, what does he need his useless clan for?

Let's get back to the basics, give the people bread and circuses kkkkkkk

lol, we think too much alike sxb, kinda eerie.

 

[Layth]

Have you heard of the tyranny of the majority? Also, what makes you think the majority know whats best for the nation? Half of the people on earth are by definition to the left of the IQ bell-curve, that in itself is the biggest reason to abandon democracy.

In the government I envision a council of educated nationalists of about 10-15 members would choose the leader. All the main clan families would be represented in the council.

Interesting. Btw, do you envision a civilian control of the military or a military dictatorship?

 

[Bahal]

lol, we think too much alike sxb, kinda eerie.

Tell me about it.

 

[Thegoodshepherd]

Somalia needs a military Junta from the big clans who can neutrally run the country and kill any opponents without seeming tribally motivated. I don't even care if they are corrupt, it can't get any worse than it is today.

This federal system effectively divided Somalia into separate countries. There will be no free movement which is a prerequisite of being a united country. In 10 years if someone wants to travel by car from Kismayo to Galkacyo, he will have to go through at least 5 checkpoint and pay entry tax to all of those administrations. The cost of running 6 federal states, each with their own ministries and military forces is not sustainable for a country as poor as Somalia. This federal system will bankrupt Somalia and will collapse very quickly, especially in the South.