101 Clear Contradictions in the Bible

Odeg said:

I agree certain things are beyond perceptions and senses but this only means that we all should strive to solve and improve our understanding not rely on simple faith. For example, if people would have given up the notion of flying then we wouldnt have airplanes today.

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No doubt. We should definitely improve our understanding of the world. We can improve our understanding of the world using our senses but we cannot come to conclusions regarding the metaphysical questions that I've posed by merely relying on empirical observation. Logically, this cannot possibly provide answers. This may be one of the reasons why Allah (SWT) has sent messengers.

Laakin I'm glad we've come to an understanding.

Hafez said:

No doubt. We should definitely improve our understanding of the world. We can improve our understanding of the world using our senses but we cannot come to conclusions regarding the metaphysical questions that I've posed by merely relying on empirical observation. Logically, this cannot possibly provide answers. This may be one of the reasons why Allah (SWT) has sent messengers.

Laakin I'm glad we've come to an understanding.

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I think its important to not limit oneself on what we can achieve or what level of understanding we can reach if we bypass the mental architecture that was imposed on us all. We should allways strive for the truth and if the truth was imposed on us since we were kids then we will be able to confirm its validity or reject it.

Odeg said:

Thats my issue, how can a book from god be lost and corrupted by people? And it would be interesting to compare religions of previous prophets to islam and see if there is contradictions or if its truly the same core message.

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This is actually true for the Bible, several passages in the Bible do actually agree with the Quran. The issue with the Bible is that it is no longer preserved in its original language, unlike the Quran, which makes it dificult. The original manuscripts have also been lost and the earliest manuscripts we have date back to 400 years after Jesus, if I remember correctly.

Odeg said:

The thing is a all powerful god would know that humans would interfere in his will (of sending books and prophets) and that god let it happen to test people is bad argument from rational perspective and makes no sense unless you build up specific conditions to make sense of it.

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How's that more rational than his claim. All claims will ultimately be subjective, unless they are based on some sort of evidence. You're asking why God sent scriptures if He knew they would be corrupted? As you mentioned, a Muslim would answer that from his/her perspective, with the answer being a reflection of the teachings within Islam, whereas you might choose to provide an answer that fits with your preferred ideology or philosophy, so in the end both positions are subjective in their own right. Hope you get my point.

Personally, it really doesn't change anything for me whether or not I know exactly why God sent scriptures/messengers to previous nations and He allowed for them to turn away from His message. I feel it's an irrelevant question that doesn't challenge the argument for belief in God. Asking why God allowed for His scriptures to be destroyed is like asking why God didn't force humanity to believe in his message, it's like asking why do we have free will and why aren't we like angels.

What matters to me is that the Bible was written by men, who till this day are unknown and lived hundreds of years after Jesus's supposed death. The Quran on the other hand, was written during the life of the prophet Muhammad (saws) a process which he oversaw, and collected by the first generation of Muslims. Those are historic and objective facts.

Reflect said:

What matters to me is that the Bible was written by men, who till this day are unknown and lived hundreds of years after Jesus's supposed death. The Quran on the other hand, was written during the life of the prophet Muhammad (saws) a process which he oversaw, and collected by the first generation of Muslims. Those are historic and objective facts.

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The bible was written who were divinely inspired the same way Muhammad was divinely inspired by Allah. I mean, the Quran was compiled by men (corruptible men).

Also, how do you explain the satanic verses? The ones that Iblis tricked Muhammad to recite and ended up in the Quran?

Hafez said:

Not everything has to be empirically observable. Why has God created evil, eh? Do you have a scientific method to determine the answer to that question? Certain things are beyond our perceptions and senses.

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That is a silly argument to make. You're asking people to simply believe based on faith which goes against the very narrative of the debate you're having with the other lad.

Why would Allah hide knowledge from us that he knows will help us escape hell? Is it not cynical of him to just demand submission but provide zero evidence for his own existence much less the truth of prophets and their supposed miracles?

The_Cosmos said:

The bible was written who were divinely inspired the same way Muhammad was divinely inspired by Allah. I mean, the Quran was compiled by men (corruptible men).

Also, how do you explain the satanic verses? The ones that Iblis tricked Muhammad to recite and ended up in the Quran?

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The Quran was written by the companions of the prophet (saws) in his time, a process which he himself oversaw. He would recite the words to them and they would write it in his presence whereafter he would personally inspect it and make sure it was accurately written. The companions were not divinely inspired and didn't need to be as the prophet was already in their presence. The Quran is also, unlike other scriptures, preserved in the minds of the Muslims which means that in case all the manuscripts were to be destroyed we would easily be able recreate the manuscripts at any moment. This is why it remains unchanged even after 1400 years, letter by letter. The words we recite today are the same as the prophet recited in his time to his people, fulfilling the verse and miracle of Allah to protect this message.

The words of Jesus were never documented by his companions during his life - there is no proof to suggest it anyway - what we have though are thousands of manuscripts discovered at different times, the earliest of which are, if I remember correctly, from at least 400 years after Jesus's time. It's also worth mentioning that not one of these thousands of manuscripts are the same, they all contradict one another, many of them even in major doctrinal areas such as the Trinity and Jesus's death. Some of the authors claimed to be inspired, but not all of them some of them admitted they were seeking fame and recognition others were motivated by money and political influence, it's very interesting.
Look up Bart Ehrman, professor in this field he's written some interesting works on the subject.

Hope the difference is clear.

Concerning what you said about the "satanic verses" it's really only something which is claimed by Christian apologetics and has no basis in Islamic tradition.

The_Cosmos said:

That is a silly argument to make. You're asking people to simply believe based on faith which goes against the very narrative of the debate you're having with the other lad.

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Why is atheism more rational and less faith- based than others beliefs?

The_Cosmos said:

Why would Allah hide knowledge from us that he knows will help us escape hell? Is it not cynical of him to just demand submission but provide zero evidence for his own existence much less the truth of prophets and their supposed miracles?

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These are your assumptions, he hasn't hidden anything. The evidence has always been there, in the shape of messengers and scripture. You can't blame Allah for the deviance of man. The same way the guidance is there now and you choose not to follow it.

Reflect said:

Why is atheism more rational and less faith- based than others beliefs?

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Atheism is more rational because it is established on the pretext that religious claims are unsubstantiated, which is true. Atheism is the lack of believe in any God and every atheist is an atheist based on the fact that there is no evidence to prove the existence of God.

There are over a thousand different gods and it is a bit arrogant to assume that the one you have been exposed to from child birth is the "truth".

Reflect said:

These are your assumptions, he hasn't hidden anything. The evidence has always been there, in the shape of messengers and scripture. You can't blame Allah for the deviance of man. The same way the guidance is there now and you choose not to follow it.

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It's not an assumption if you cannot provide objective evidence to prove any of the claims that your religion makes. I can provide evidence that much of the claims your religion is built on derives from other religions that were local to Arabia excluding Christianity and Judaism.

Reflect said:

These are your assumptions, he hasn't hidden anything. The evidence has always been there, in the shape of messengers and scripture. You can't blame Allah for the deviance of man. The same way the guidance is there now and you choose not to follow it.

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What objective evidence is there for Allah?

The_Cosmos said:

It's not an assumption if you cannot provide objective evidence to prove any of the claims that your religion makes.

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If objective evidence is the requirement, then all your statements so far have been assumptions/claims. You claimed among other things that Allah had hidden scripture and guidance from humanity, can you provide objective evidence for that?

Reflect said:

If objective evidence is the requirement, then all your statements so far have been assumptions/claims. You claimed among other things that Allah had hidden scripture and guidance from humanity, can you provide objective evidence for that?

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I claimed that he hides the knowledge of his existence and this is evident from the thousands of gods throughout history and the fact that no theist has objectively proven his existence.

I'll gladly accept revert to Islam if you A) prove to me that the Quran is divine and B) prove to me that Allah exists. (A and B are sort of linked but you get my point).

The_Cosmos said:

I can provide evidence that much of the claims your religion is built on derives from other religions that were local to Arabia excluding Christianity and Judaism.

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Let me guess, you're another Atheist who picks up ridiculous claims - that have been thoroughly refuted - from bigoted Islam bashing websites, so much for objectivity. You're welcome to share, the same old garbage in a new bag.

Reflect said:

Let me guess, you're another Atheist who picks up ridiculous claims - that have been thoroughly refuted - from bigoted Islam bashing websites, so much for objectivity. You're welcome to share, the same old garbage in a new bag.

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Wow, it shows a lot about your nature to just characterise me simply based on my lack of belief in your God.

I will provide a few examples illustrating that much of the wide held Islamic beliefs are based off of local religions. I'm happy for you to research this if you're not convinced.

Jinns - The belief in jinn predates Islam. It was a widely held belief in pre Islamic Arabia.

Salah and Wudu - this was highly influenced from zorosotrianism. I think the prayer schedules were also influenced by them but I'm not sure.

Noah's flood - this predates the Abrahamic faiths. This has its roots in ancient Egypt and it's pagan/polytheistic religions.

There are more. You can dismiss them and say some weird shit to dismiss my claims but it proves one thing...that Islam and it's is definitely not unique (excluding the supposed relationship it has with the other 2 religions).

I would like you to respect me as an individual and show me the same level of decency that I'm showing you and your beliefs. Do not make assumptions about my nature based off of complete ignorance and a few nonsensical characterisations of atheists.

The_Cosmos said:

I claimed that he hides the knowledge of his existence and this is evident from the thousands of gods throughout history and the fact that no theist has objectively proven his existence.

I'll gladly accept revert to Islam if you A) prove to me that the Quran is divine and B) prove to me that Allah exists. (A and B are sort of linked but you get my point).

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My objective is not to revert you back to Islam, we all have to make our choices in life and live with them. Allah doesn't need me or you.

You mentioned that atheism is the belief in the non-existence of God, can you explain why that position is more rational than belief in a creator of the universe?

Reflect said:

My objective is not to revert you back to Islam, we all have to make our choices in life and live with them. Allah doesn't need me or you.

You mentioned that atheism is the belief in the non-existence of God, can you explain why that position is more rational than belief in a creator of the universe?

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No, I said that atheism is the LACK of belief in any gods. Please get this right because it's very important you do. Some atheist of course believe with absolute certainty but that does not categorise the majority which lack belief due to evidence.

Atheism is more rational because it takes the position of non-existence until proven otherwise. Think of it as 'innocent until proven guilty' but instead we're focusing on God and his existence.

When a man is accused of murder, the one who accuses him will have to prove that he is guilty otherwise he's going to be assumed innocent. I'm doing the exact same thing. Also, the burden of proof is on the one making the claim just like the accuser must prove their case.

The Bible's contradictions, though plenty, are hardly relevant to this site's viewership, but u don't care to scrutinize the relevant text, do u?