Why did Omani create an empire in East Africa and Somalis?

[Trailblazer]

 

[Land of Punt]

lol, the map is so fake its embrassing, none of somalia was included in that so called empire
it was just a slave trading empire centred in the swalli coast, somalia was not included (maybe the extreme southern tip) but not anywhere else

that was the reality of somalia during the so called omani empire

or more recently the
horn was domianted by somali sultantes

 

[Trailblazer]

lol, the map is so fake its embrassing, none of somalia was included in that so called empire
it was just a slave trading empire centred in the swalli coast, somalia was not included (maybe the extreme southern tip) but not anywhere else

that was the reality of somalia during the so called omani empire

one the maps is bit over exaggerated, however, the map you provide is also inaccurate. were talking about 1650-1880 when all those old kingdoms had disappeared.

 

[Trailblazer]

yeah i updated it, and showed a more recent maps of somalia (1890)
ill post it again

as you can see the indian ocean coast of somalia is dominated by somali clan based sultanates, there was no omani pressence anywhere north of kismayo

I know that, i already said that map was over exaggerated. yet let not make our small sultanate into empire. the MJ/hobyo sultanate were small compared to Khedive Egyptian empire to the north and the Oman empire to the south.

 

[Land of Punt]

I know that, i already said that map was over exaggerated. yet let not make our small sultanate into empire. the MJ/hobyo sultanate were small compared to Khedive Egyptian empire to the north and the Oman empire to the south.

no, they were not an empire, but you must remember somali states always have taken up a lot of land, the maps are accurate, as that was the state of the horn, when the europeans came,
also the omani so called empire is the biggest exaggration have ever seen,

first oman controlled little of the gulf, and only 10km inland in the kenyan and tanzanian costal areas
as i have said, it was basically a slave trading entity, you cant even call it an empire, it only had small outposts, also, the orginally map incorrectly highlghts areas of trade as part of its kingdom

all it did in somalia proper is trade with local city states, there was nothing in the ground, no omani citys, no omani settlements and finally no omani rule anywhere in somalia

the khedive egyptians did not really control any areas of the horn, but had a client state in near djibouti

 

[Trailblazer]

There was a load question beneath why did Oman a minuscule desert Arabian (today Oman native population number 2 million) country end up ruling in east Africa and but the somali. one different aside from Oman having a stronger maritime trade network is the Portuguese. the Portuguese destroy Muscat and colonize it and the island of hormuz. they build large fortress armed with artillery batteries which help them to control the choke point of the Persian Gulf. the Portuguese remain in Muscat from 1507-1650 until they were drive out by the local. by 1690 a new ibadi dynastry was leading oman to invade the east african colonies of the Portuguese. how did Oman accomplish this feat. they learn modern artillery from the Portuguese their armies and Baluch mercenaries were armed with muskets and canons. they dhows were armed with canons and they learn more advanced castle building techniques. with a few thousand men, Saif bin Sultan was able to create a world empire for Oman.

 

[Trailblazer]

no, they were not an empire, but you must remember somali states always have taken up a lot of land, the maps are accurate, as that was the state of the horn, when the europeans came,
also the omani so called empire is the biggest exaggration have ever seen,

first oman controlled little of the gulf, and only 10km inland in the kenyan and tanzanian costal areas
as i have said, it was basically a slave trading entity, you cant even call it an empire, it only had small outposts, also, the orginally map incorrectly highlghts areas of trade as part of its kingdom

all it did in somalia proper is trade with local city states, there was nothing in the ground, no omani citys, no omani settlements and finally no omani rule anywhere in somalia

the khedive egyptians did not really control any areas of the horn, but had a client state in near djibouti

the Khedive empire control the entire northern coast(port Sudan to Berbera) as well as Harar plateau for 5 year before the empire fell apart.

 

[Land of Punt]

There was a load question beneath why did Oman a minuscule desert Arabian (today Oman native population number 2 million) country end up ruling in east Africa and but the somali. one different aside from Oman having a stronger maritime trade network is the Portuguese. the Portuguese destroy Muscat and colonize it and the island of hormuz. they build large fortress armed with artillery batteries which help them to control the choke point of the Persian Gulf. the Portuguese remain in Muscat from 1507-1650 until they were drive out by the local. by 1690 a new ibadi dynastry was leading oman to invade the east african colonies of the Portuguese. how did Oman accomplish this feat. they learn modern artillery from the Portuguese their armies and Baluch mercenaries were armed with muskets and canons. they dhows were armed with canons and they learn more advanced castle building techniques. with a few thousand men, Saif bin Sultan was able to create a world empire for Oman.

yes but the omanis were no richer than previous empires that domianted the indian ocean, you could say the same for the small somali kingdom of ajuuraan, who not only defeated the portuguese when they were at their strongest, but created a trading empire that streched from china to spain,
therefore you can conclude that we somals created a far richer kingdom, which the omanis hundreds of years later failed to match

also it was not a world empire lol, i mean its not hard taking over some bantu costal areas, and selling slaves

they did not control berbera directly, the local somali clan only paid some client fees to them, it was 5 years as well, thats like claiming nazi germany controled and culturally shaped france, which is not factualy,
i mean, they never even build anything in berbera, its like us somalis claiming south yeman, because eons ago we controled bits of the coastal areas there

 

[Trailblazer]

yes but the omanis were no richer than previous empires that domianted the indian ocean, you could say the same for the small somali kingdom of ajuuraan, who not only defeated the portuguese when they were at their strongest, but created a trading empire that streched from china to spain,
therefore you can conclude that we somals created a far richer kingdom, which omanis hundreds of years later failed to match

also it was not a world empire lol, i mean its not hard taking over some bantu costal areas, and selling slaves

they did not control berbera directly, the local somali clan only paid some client fees to them, it was 5 years as well, thats like claiming nazi germany controled and culturally shaped france, which is not factualy,
i mean, they never even build anything in berbera, its like us somalis claiming south yeman, because eons ago we controled bits of the coastal areas there

And where is the evidence for this extensive Ajuraan Trading empire that stretch from China to Spain(WTF). When Zheng He arrive in Mogadhiso 1430 the was no mention of this Sprawling empire. and yet again they is no mention of Ajuraan in historical records defeating the Portueguese and sailing south to aid the Ottoman to fight the crusader. do you really think such a strong empire with forts, ships and canon could be destroyed by reer Miya from Mudug. Ajuraan empire was large clan coalition that control tribes through vessalage nothing more we don't know if the sultanate of Mogadhiso was it ally or vessel because we have no written record about this kingdom just some clan stories and myth. the only believable fact was that Ajuraan turned back the oromo. which may have weaken them so much that they collapse with a generation. don't believe the hype.

We Somalis create far richer empire than Oman


The oman yes profit from the slave trade they also create the largest plantation system in Africa. they turn the island of Pemba and Zanzibar into american southwest yet rather than cotton the slaves harvest spice especially cloves which at that time made Zanzibari empire the largest producers of cloves for the world market.

i mean, they never even build anything in berbera, its like us somalis claiming south yeman, because eons ago we controled bits of the coastal areas there.

 

[Land of Punt]

And where is the evidence for this extensive Ajuraan Trading empire that stretch from China to Spain(WTF). When Zheng He arrive in Mogadhiso 1430 the was no mention of this Sprawling empire. and yet again they is no mention of Ajuraan in historical records defeating the Portueguese and sailing south to aid the Ottoman to fight the crusader. do you really think such a strong empire with forts, ships and canon could be destroyed by reer Miya from Mudug. Ajuraan empire was large clan coalition that control tribes through vessalage nothing more we don't know if the sultanate of Mogadhiso was it ally or vessel because we have no written record about this kingdom just some clan stories and myth. the only believable fact was that Ajuraan turned back the oromo. which may have weaken them so much that they collapse with a generation. don't believe the hype.

We Somalis create far richer empire than Oman


The oman yes profit from the slave trade they also create the largest plantation system in Africa. they turn the island of Pemba and Zanzibar into american southwest yet rather than cotton the slaves harvest spice especially cloves which at that time made Zanzibari empire the largest producers of cloves for the world market.

i mean, they never even build anything in berbera, its like us somalis claiming south yeman, because eons ago we controled bits of the coastal areas there.

look, is this actually a joke,

so you are claiming that the ajuraan empire did not defeat the portguese, even though it is recorded in most western historical books, you do realise you are frawing over a country that got destroyed and raped by the portugese but you are neglating our own history by dismissing the fact the potugese could not capture any significant part of somalia, xamar was btw the richest city in the indian ocean,

yes we somalis had a collective rich trading history, clearly this map highlghts that we traded from spain to china

and the ajurans were the only african country to defeat a superpower (portugual), first to trade wth the chnese
but i guess all those researched facts (by western historians) are just myths to you,
you almost sound like an omani propaganda tool,

 

[Land of Punt]

The European Age of discovery brought Europe's then superpower the Portuguese empire to the coast of East Africa, which at the time enjoyed a flourishing trade with foreign nations. The wealthy southeastern city-states of Kilwa, Mombasa, Malindi, Pate and Lamu were all systematically sacked and plundered by the Portuguese. Tristão da Cunha then set his eyes on Ajuran territory, where the battle of Barawa was fought. After a long period of engagement, the Portuguese soldiers burned the city and looted it. However, fierce resistance by the local population and soldiers resulted in the Portuguese's failure to permanently occupy the city, and the inhabitants who had fled to the interior would eventually return and rebuild the city. After Barawa, Tristão would set sail for Mogadishu, which was the richest city on the East African coast. But word had spread of what had happened in Barawa, and a large troop mobilization had taken place. Many horsemen, soldiers and battleships in defense positions were now guarding the city. Nevertheless, Tristão still opted to storm and attempt to conquer the city, although every officer and soldier in his army opposed this, fearing certain defeat if they were to engage their opponents in battle. Tristão heeded their advice and sailed for Socotra instead.[43] After the battle the city of Barawa quickly recovered from the attack

the source is
The History of the Portuguese, During the Reign of Emmanuel pg.287

i really dont know if you hate your own somali history, but we created something much better than some sand dwelling arabs

 

[Land of Punt]

The Somali-Ottoman offensive managed to drive out the Portuguese from several important cities such as Pate, Mombasa and Kilwa. However, the Portuguese governor sent envoys to Portuguese India requesting a large Portuguese fleet. This request was answered and it reversed the previous offensive of the Muslims into one of defense. The Portuguese armada managed to re-take most of the lost cities and began punishing their leaders, but they refrained from attacking Mogadishu securing the cites autonomy in the Indian Ocean.[19][48] The Ajuran's Somali forces would eventually militarily defeat the Portuguese.

i mean come on, you can check the sources under wikipedia yourself, us somalis did defeat a superpower, learn to live with it

 

[Trailblazer]

look, is this actually a joke, so you are claiming that the ajuraan empire did not defeat the portguese, even though it is recorded in most western historical books, you do realise you are frawing over a country that got destroyed and raped by the portugese but is neglating our own history by dismissing the fact the potugese could not capture any significant part of somalia, xamar was btw the richest city in the indian ocean,

yes we somalis had a collective rich trading history, clearly this map highlghts that we traded from spain to china

and the ajurans were the only african country to defeat a superpower (portugual), first to trade wth the chnese
but i guess all those researched facts (by western historians) are just myths to you,
you almost sound like an omani propaganda tool,

Waar the Map show who were trade with not, there is not evidence and i repeat no evidence of a vast trading network if there were, somali coins would have been found in these lands. like roman coins in India from 100 A.D and ethiopian coins from 500 A.D. but Somali had not never mints it own coin( rather, trader from india, arabia, persia and china arrive in somalia and barter good from locals. no coin no vast establish trade network only when your coin go into circulation and are used by foreign state can you be can be considered a world class trading power. so exactly what did we trade ibn Batutu states that somalia trade cloth to egypt which make sense yet we didn't grow cotton, we did spin and create yarn. we only used looms to create white cloth for export that it. Mogadhiso and all southern somalia depended on transshipment of good between Arabia and East Africa. all the addons, gold, Ivory game from the south.

As for the Ajuraan, where is the proof, i have read arabic and european historical text from this period and no one mention Ajuraan. you also forget that Portuguese sack Barawa, Merka, Berbere, Zeylac why didn't the great and power Ajuran protect these cities if they could. how come there are no navel encounters with Ajuraan or any military encounter yet military encounters between the protuegese and mamluks, ottomans, chinese, malays etc are record. The portueguese even record raids made by even minute powers like Bajuun and Lamu yet they are completely silence by Ajuraan.

horte, if you want to shut me up provide proof, the burden of proof is on you not me.

 

[Trailblazer]

The European Age of discovery brought Europe's then superpower the Portuguese empire to the coast of East Africa, which at the time enjoyed a flourishing trade with foreign nations. The wealthy southeastern city-states of Kilwa, Mombasa, Malindi, Pate and Lamu were all systematically sacked and plundered by the Portuguese. Tristão da Cunha then set his eyes on Ajuran territory, where the battle of Barawa was fought. After a long period of engagement, the Portuguese soldiers burned the city and looted it. However, fierce resistance by the local population and soldiers resulted in the Portuguese's failure to permanently occupy the city, and the inhabitants who had fled to the interior would eventually return and rebuild the city. After Barawa, Tristão would set sail for Mogadishu, which was the richest city on the East African coast. But word had spread of what had happened in Barawa, and a large troop mobilization had taken place. Many horsemen, soldiers and battleships in defense positions were now guarding the city. Nevertheless, Tristão still opted to storm and attempt to conquer the city, although every officer and soldier in his army opposed this, fearing certain defeat if they were to engage their opponents in battle. Tristão heeded their advice and sailed for Socotra instead.[43] After the battle the city of Barawa quickly recovered from the attack

the source is
The History of the Portuguese, During the Reign of Emmanuel pg.287

i really dont know if you hate your own somali history, but we created something much better than some sand dwelling arabs

Hate my history no, hate the fakeness of somalis where they try to make every little tullow into a metropolis. so the source say that no engagement occurred. and that the Portuguese move north to occupy Soqotra. since when did being bypass mean that somalis defeat the Portuguese. Mogadhiso was just lucky enough not to be sack like very other city on the east coast.

 

[Trailblazer]

The Somali-Ottoman offensive managed to drive out the Portuguese from several important cities such as Pate, Mombasa and Kilwa. However, the Portuguese governor sent envoys to Portuguese India requesting a large Portuguese fleet. This request was answered and it reversed the previous offensive of the Muslims into one of defense. The Portuguese armada managed to re-take most of the lost cities and began punishing their leaders, but they refrained from attacking Mogadishu securing the cites autonomy in the Indian Ocean.[19][48] The Ajuran's Somali forces would eventually militarily defeat the Portuguese.

i mean come on, you can check the sources under wikipedia yourself, us somalis did defeat a superpower, learn to live with it

siilaanyolaugh
so wikipedia is you source,

 

[Land of Punt]

clearly i said the sources that vaildates wiki, even a stupid fool would understand that,

So Berbera, Zeylac, cities in the far north were supposed to be protected by the ajurans who were a southern empire( hghlights how much bullshit you write)

funny, i never knew tulos became the richest city in east africa,

what next will you claim???:.. punt did not exist, somalis are actualy hybrid arabs and bantu,
so if we trade to china it does not count, but when omanis chain up a bunch of bantus and force them to work it must be a gem of history


but i know understand what kind of person i am dealing with, i mean if ajuaran was located in yeman, you would be claiming it was a superpower, funny thing is i have provided books by portugese that you could read -
The History of the Portuguese, During the Reign of Emmanuel pg.287
yet thats not enough for you, but nothing ever will,
safe yourself from your own self hating and just claim to be omani, you are already half way there obamadatazz

 

[Land of Punt]

anyway at the end of the day you have claimed that a group of arabs making bantu slaves farm was a WORLD EMPIRE


after that i cant take you seriously

 

[Trailblazer]

anyway at the end of the day you have claimed that a group of arabs making bantu slaves farm was a WORLD EMPIRE


after that i cant take you seriously

the moment you bring some really evidence is when i take you serious. typical geeljiro, arguing for arguing sakes. you've prove nothing, Ajuraan were less than the Omani because they never left their homeland. they didn't participate in global economy, let face it, the arab were Ajuraan middle men. their clerks were Arab and trade with the outside world was in the hand of arabs.

you'd better come up with a better rhetori than self hate fool. like a said, the burden of proof lie with you. i made an observation but since that didn't fit into your world view, you try to attack me, chump this isn't Caddan studies. 1650-1890 were a dark age, nothing written nothing accomplish buy the somalia while these desert rats build an empire, take the L.

 

[Land of Punt]

the moment you bring some really evidence is when i take you serious. typical geeljiro, arguing for arguing sakes. you've prove nothing, Ajuraan were less than the Omani because they never left their homeland. they didn't participate in global economy, let face it, the arab were Ajuraan middle men. their clerks were Arab and trade with the outside world was in the hand of arabs.

you'd better come up with a better rhetori than self hate fool. like a said, the burden of proof lie with you. i made an observation but since that didn't fit into your world view, you try to attack me, chump this isn't Caddan studies. 1650-1890 were a dark age, nothing written nothing accomplish buy the somalia while these desert rats build an empire, take the L.

so the omanis were a world empire,

its clear that you have no clue about the bullshit you are write, what "empire", all this arab that arab this, funny it was actually only the turks that we had connections with, as no independant arab state existed at the time
im not attacking you, im just saying what did they really do of note, slave bantus and make them farm??? is this it???

you make them seem to be a superpower, i mean just because you are mentally slaved by arabs does not mean the rest of us are, they slaved bantus good for them, they made them farm good for them lol,

do you want a cookie, i mean wow, they created such a "WORLD EMPIRE"

 

[Land of Punt]

in reality even the camals those desert dwellers had was first domesticated by somalis