Where is the chronicles of mogadihsu

[Midas]

Manuscript collections has zero to do with aristocratic or urbanized elites or cohesive identity. Most manuscripts by default are in private hands , excluding the few state commissioned texts or the Qadi produced records . Most manuscripts in Yemen and Oman for examples are in private hands and a large number of them are unreachable. Same for the Horn.

That's why they relied on people voluntarily donating them before the civil war. Can't really ask to hand over peoples personal/private property for the sake of collecting historical material.



@Shimbiris take a look at this photo/caption. Interesting stuff.

I meant more in the sense that the more urbanizzed the more demand and need for reading material. Plus all of the great massive literary/art productions were financed by an interested elite .

 

[Emir of Zayla]

What was left out from it is that there is also the chronicle Tarikh Al-Gadabursi (Mentions their patriarch Imam Ali Said's alliance with the Awdal sultans in their fight against Abyssinia and Ugas Malik resistance against Oromo invasion in year 1575) it was copied by I'M Lewis and Wagner from private hands and a few other manuscripts from Northern Somalia was brought to European Libraries.

Could you talk more about this? It sounds interesting, does it talk about the political situation of the Muslim regions during the late 16th century?

 

[Idilinaa]

Could you talk more about this? It sounds interesting, does it talk about the political situation of the Muslim regions during the late 16th century?

I don't have a copy of it, but from references i have seen by i am Lewis it talks about the Oromo incursions into Awdal and Gadabursi territory in 1575 and their resistance to it. So it most likely delves into the regional Muslim situation during that period which was filled with upheavals and calamities.

The copy or original that was donated to the Somali Museum got lost due to the civil war, but there is another copy of it in the German state library.

It is also to be underlined that these three manuscripts originate in north Somalia where I. M. Lewis had them copied from the originals in the second half of the 50s7. WAGNER received the copies of these Somali manuscripts from Lewis in 1972 and left them to the Staatsbibliothek in 1996.

 

[Midas]

I don't have a copy of it, but from references i have seen by i am Lewis it talks about the Oromo incursions into Awdal and Gadabursi territory in 1575 and their resistance to it. So it most likely delves into the regional Muslim situation during that period which was filled with upheavals and calamities.

The copy or original that was donated to the Somali Museum got lost due to the civil war, but there is another copy of it in the German state library.

How far did the oromos reach ? It seems everybody in somalia has oral traditions about the goal madow wars and how their used to be ormos in their land. Even as far as sanaag.

 

[Idilinaa]

How far did the oromos reach ? It seems everybody in somalia has oral traditions about the goal madow wars and how their used to be ormos in their land. Even as far as sanaag.

They reached all the way to the Eritrean coast and Zayla before being decisively defeated and pushed back. It's documented.

In the south they penetrated into the Juba & Tana and the Northern Swahili coastline.

They never reached Sanaag or any other eastern regions. Gaal which means camel has nothing to do with Oromo's. That's a conflation, there is no tradition of invasions either in the North East.

 

[Midas]

They reached all the way to the Eritrean coast and Zayla before being decisively defeated and pushed back. It's documented.

In the south they penetrated into the Juba & Tana and the Northern Swahili coastline.

They never reached Sanaag or any other eastern regions. Gaal which means camel has nothing to do with Oromo's. That's a conflation, there is no tradition of invasions either in the North East.
also mean infidel. It's pronounced differently. If it Black camel wars wouldn't make any sense now would it. Also

It might be spelt galla but you know what I mean when I say gaal madow wars. It's obviously referring to the wars associated with ormos who were still pagan at the time. Black camel wars wouldn't make sense now would it. About the sanaag stories I've defiantly heard it from my families who's in the region. Stories about ormos . It's possible they weren't in sanaaag but if they didn't reach the northeast at all. Why would people hear be sharing those stories

 

[Idilinaa]

It might be spelt galla but you know what I mean when I say gaal madow wars. It's obviously referring to the wars associated with ormos who were still pagan at the time. Black camel wars wouldn't make sense now would it. About the sanaag stories I've defiantly heard it from my families who's in the region. Stories about ormos . It's possible they weren't in sanaaag but if they didn't reach the northeast at all. Why would people hear be sharing those stories

Gaal madow wars traditions was in the south , not in Sanaag.

Beyond this, Ajuraan traditions mention a numer of military expeditions undertaken against the gaal madow (black infideels), persumably rahanwiin or oromo tribes that lay beyond the forntier of Ajuraan Islamic administration.

Even here i am uncertain if it's in reference to Oromos or means infidel. Because when i read Virginia Lulings book she mentions the name Gaal Madow among other place names. It's seems more like a reference to camels , which is pronounced Gaal in old Somali. There are place names with Gaal in them all over the region.

Other names refer to the place where the village developed and may antedate the settlement ther: names recalling events in traditional history, such as the defeat of the Gaal Madow - Gaalgube ( burnt Gaal ) , Lafagaale ( bones of the Gaal ) ; or referring to animals or plants ,, like Bocorow (gourd place), Buulo Dacarta (aloe village), Caanoole ( place of milk ) , Buulo Waraabe ( hyena village ) , Libaaxle ( lion place )

A lot of Oromos were still pagan in the 1800s. They were being converted by Somalis and we didn't refer to them as Gaal Madow either from what i am aware of.

 

[Midas]

Gaal madow wars traditions was in the south , not in Sanaag.


Even here i am uncertain if it's in reference to Oromos or means infidel. Because when i read Virginia Lulings book she mentions the name Gaal Madow among other place names. It's seems more like a reference to camels , which is pronounced Gaal in old Somali. There are place names with Gaal in them all over the region.


A lot of Oromos were still pagan in the 1800s. They were being converted by Somalis and we didn't refer to them as Gaal Madow either from what i am aware of.

I assume the oromos are the infidels . But it's weird how considering hiw far they came into somali territories. That outside the garres . There doesn't seem to be much impact or any pockets where people trace their abtirisi to oromos. I could be wrong are you aware of anything thats a sign they left behind?

 

[Idilinaa]

I assume the oromos are the infidels . But it's weird how considering hiw far they came into somali territories. That outside the garres . There doesn't seem to be much impact or any pockets where people trace their abtirisi to oromos. I could be wrong are you aware of anything thats a sign they left behind?

Oromos moved deeper into Amhara/Abyssinian/Christian territory, they even replaced their dynasty and turned their rulers into mere figureheads.

They spread in different directions, but their main routes was the deepest and concentrated in the highlands.

It was almost Mongol'esque when you look back on it, very interesting stuff

 

[Som]

It's not speculation. You're spot-on. I touched upon it in my thread regarding that Leelkase oday whose text was from the 17th or 18th century. When the Italians and Brits showed up they noted that a lot of the oral traditions of Koonfur and Xamar being recounted to them by Gibil Madow and Gibil Cad tribes seemed to be written down. As in the individuals telling them these stories would literally stop to consult manuscripts they were holding (@Idilinaa knows this better than me). I haven't checked the source as I'm busy nowadays but I recall this touching on that:

https://www.jstor.org/stable/41428138

A lot of these manuscripts got looted the hell out of when the civil war struck Xamar. I've encountered firsthand Somali odays who've told me about old manuscripts their family donated to the government/museum that were ultimately looted. You'll even sometimes rarely encounter some Indian dude or collector offering to sell them alongside Somali swords, daggers and so forth.

So sad . It's even worse that these manuscript were not studied enough before the war, at least we could have saved the content if not the manuscripts themselves. I believe though some old masjids in Xamar have lot's of interesting stuff still preserved

 

[Riftvalley]

I assume the oromos are the infidels . But it's weird how considering hiw far they came into somali territories. That outside the garres . There doesn't seem to be much impact or any pockets where people trace their abtirisi to oromos. I could be wrong are you aware of anything thats a sign they left behind?

Somalis are mobile warriors. A group fighting Oromo in the Ogaden plains would have warriors from Nugaal/Bari aiding them to due clan relationships and/or religious fevour. Somalis also have Gurmad culture (military reinforcement of a clan Against an enemy). The Oromo invasion was also fought by the Sultanate of Adal, so it would have declared as a defensive Jihad and many Somalis would have come from far and wide, hence why so many story’s survive within Somaliaweyn.

 

[Yami]

Gaal madow wars traditions was in the south , not in Sanaag.


Even here i am uncertain if it's in reference to Oromos or means infidel. Because when i read Virginia Lulings book she mentions the name Gaal Madow among other place names. It's seems more like a reference to camels , which is pronounced Gaal in old Somali. There are place names with Gaal in them all over the region.


A lot of Oromos were still pagan in the 1800s. They were being converted by Somalis and we didn't refer to them as Gaal Madow either from what i am aware of.

The first definition of Black Infidels is right. There were 16 qabiils in southern somalia who were kafirs until the 16th century. The largest one being Madinle remembered for building some irrigation canals in northern kenya by both Somalis & Rendile.

 

[Idilinaa]

The first definition of Black Infidels is right. There were 16 qabiils in southern somalia who were kafirs until the 16th century. The largest one being Madinle remembered for building some irrigation canals in northern kenya by both Somalis & Rendile.

Gaal madow in most likelyhood means Black Camel. Gaal is how you pronounce Geel (Camel)in southern dialects and old Somali. It's seperate from Gaalo or Galla.

We have portuguese, arab descriptions of Southern Somalis in the 14-16th century describing them as Muslim plainly, even ones as far as Maracates(Katwa) in NFD and northern swahili coast are described as Muslim, . So i seriously doubt that many of them could have been non-Muslim.