History Were the Fakr al Din and Muzaffar dynasties Somali or Arab/Persian

@Pipit,

lately some user called Alaskalava has been editing Somali wiki pages to include Arab contributions. He mostly contributes to East African, Middle Eastern and North African articles.


best,

Faahiye
I would never trust anything related to Somalis in Wikipedia, it is the playground of the Hamiticist.
 
Some guy on Wikipedia edited the Sultanate of Mogadishu page to say the Fakr al din dynasty was Arab:dwill:View attachment 139872
Glad to see they are finally trying to clean up that putrid rat's nest. Sadly, there's lots more to do.

The "pro-Somalis" need not worry. Somebody will likely switch it back, which is why I don't bother correcting what's there.

For those interested in actual history, the Hawiyya Oral Traditions say the Hiraab killed the Muzzaffar governor and the Yaaquub Abgaal entered Shingaani some time between 1590 and 1625. The 1634 date is attributed to Leo Africanus without actual reference and seems less reliable.
 

tyrannicalmanager

moderate power corrupts moderately
is just me or are there a group weirdo's on the internet obsessed with revising the history of 2 medieval kingdoms located in east africa.:jaynerd:
 
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Some guy on Wikipedia edited the Sultanate of Mogadishu page to say the Fakr al din dynasty was Arab:dwill:View attachment 139872
Yes. They were arabs but probably mixed with locals to some extent. Ajuran somalia had a strong relationship with the muzzaffar.
Fakr ad din was definitely arab like most of the first arab clans who founded Xamar. But by 14th century ibn battuta described the local sultan as a non arab black man who spoke "mogadishian"(maybe modern somali language) so we know that at some point black people ruled the city. Portuguese explorer also described mogadishu as inhabited by black people.
Technicaly somalis were still up north when Mogadishu was founded in the 9th century, but we came over and conquered the city from them
 
Glad to see they are finally trying to clean up that putrid rat's nest. Sadly, there's lots more to do.

The "pro-Somalis" need not worry. Somebody will likely switch it back, which is why I don't bother correcting what's there.

For those interested in actual history, the Hawiyya Oral Traditions say the Hiraab killed the Muzzaffar governor and the Yaaquub Abgaal entered Shingaani some time between 1590 and 1625. The 1634 date is attributed to Leo Africanus without actual reference and seems less reliable.
Arab and portoguese mention black people living in Mogadishu. Even ibn battuta says that the sultan was a "barbar" who spoke mogadishian. It's likely that the sultan ibn battuta met was somali. Somalis lived in Banadir and had their center in Merka as arab historians point out in the 13th century.
I accept that the early settlers were arab but there is strong evidence that somalis played a role in Mogadishu way before the XVII century.
Muzzafars are also a relatively new dinasty. Fakr ad din and the first settlers had nothing to do with yemeni muzzafars
 
Ethnic identity was simultaneously not really a thing back then and more flexible as a concept.

Every educated Muslim person at the time capable of writing spoke and wrote in fluent Arabic, and no other language. There was no written form of the Somali language for official correspondence or documentation until the 20th century. For this reason all written histories and monuments are in Arabic, and all the rulers spoke Arabic, but this also doesn't mean anything because everyone did.

There was no concept of being a Somali or an Arab in these times. People would have a tribal identity, but unless you have intimate knowledge of all the different tribal genealogies you wouldn't know which is what.

The cities of medieval Somalia were very cosmopolitan. Until the 20th century Zeila for instance had several Somali clans, Arab merchants from Yemen, Egypt, Hejaz and Oman, merchants from India and the far east, and even some Yemeni Jews. That's what cities were for back then, entrepots.

I think if you got in a time machine to go ask someone from a thousand years ago whether they were an Arab or a Somali they would probably not understand what you're asking, and you would have to first explain the concept of ethnic nationalism.

Arabs weren't even Arabs at this point, especially in southern Arabia a lot of people still spoke South Semitic languages as their first language.
 
Glad to see they are finally trying to clean up that putrid rat's nest. Sadly, there's lots more to do.

The "pro-Somalis" need not worry. Somebody will likely switch it back, which is why I don't bother correcting what's there.

For those interested in actual history, the Hawiyya Oral Traditions say the Hiraab killed the Muzzaffar governor and the Yaaquub Abgaal entered Shingaani some time between 1590 and 1625. The 1634 date is attributed to Leo Africanus without actual reference and seems less reliable.
How u know all of this
 

Diaspora ambassador

Representative of Bari
Yes. They were arabs but probably mixed with locals to some extent. Ajuran somalia had a strong relationship with the muzzaffar.
Fakr ad din was definitely arab like most of the first arab clans who founded Xamar. But by 14th century ibn battuta described the local sultan as a non arab black man who spoke "mogadishian"(maybe modern somali language) so we know that at some point black people ruled the city. Portuguese explorer also described mogadishu as inhabited by black people.
Technicaly somalis were still up north when Mogadishu was founded in the 9th century, but we came over and conquered the city from them
Hold up doesn't xamar's history stretch back to the era of the ancient greeks?

You know our ancient port cities.

Or did the arabs create xamar back then aswell.

Either you believe in the arab propaganda to lesser our rank in the region or you will proudly say no xamar was founded and ruled by somalis.

Come on know somalis fought each other how in the hell did some arabs come along without an army to settle in somali lands.

Make it make sense please
 
Yes. They were arabs but probably mixed with locals to some extent. Ajuran somalia had a strong relationship with the muzzaffar.
Fakr ad din was definitely arab like most of the first arab clans who founded Xamar. But by 14th century ibn battuta described the local sultan as a non arab black man who spoke "mogadishian"(maybe modern somali language) so we know that at some point black people ruled the city. Portuguese explorer also described mogadishu as inhabited by black people.
Technicaly somalis were still up north when Mogadishu was founded in the 9th century, but we came over and conquered the city from them
Xamar has Somali origins, the term Xamar refers to a red sand hill that use to surround Xamarweyne. It was first settled by 4 clans in Xamarwayne who have Hawiye nomadic roots. @James Dahl nor @Grant can dispute this.

Moorshe
Bendhabow
Iskaashato
Dhabarweyne

The city grew and became cosmopolitan when Shingaani was formed.

20200916_211945-2.jpg


20200925_173229.jpg


Fakhrudiin was a judge, highly educated and built a Mosque. We know this because his name is still inscribed on the mixraab. Abu Bakr at the time of ibn Battuta was the Ajuran chief of Xamar. He had Somali roots and spoke a local language whilst Arabic was the lingua franca of the region.

The Arab influence isn't disputed, they came in waves throughout the centuries as late as 1930. They are a big part of the city history and culture but ultimately they adopted our language and customs, not the other way around. Factz had all the sources on this.
 
Ethnic identity was simultaneously not really a thing back then and more flexible as a concept.

Every educated Muslim person at the time capable of writing spoke and wrote in fluent Arabic, and no other language. There was no written form of the Somali language for official correspondence or documentation until the 20th century. For this reason all written histories and monuments are in Arabic, and all the rulers spoke Arabic, but this also doesn't mean anything because everyone did.

There was no concept of being a Somali or an Arab in these times. People would have a tribal identity, but unless you have intimate knowledge of all the different tribal genealogies you wouldn't know which is what.

The cities of medieval Somalia were very cosmopolitan. Until the 20th century Zeila for instance had several Somali clans, Arab merchants from Yemen, Egypt, Hejaz and Oman, merchants from India and the far east, and even some Yemeni Jews. That's what cities were for back then, entrepots.

I think if you got in a time machine to go ask someone from a thousand years ago whether they were an Arab or a Somali they would probably not understand what you're asking, and you would have to first explain the concept of ethnic nationalism.

Arabs weren't even Arabs at this point, especially in southern Arabia a lot of people still spoke South Semitic languages as their first language.
Some
Xamar has Somali origins, the term Xamar refers to a red sand hill that use to surround Xamarweyne. It was first settled by 4 clans in Xamarwayne who have Hawiye nomadic roots. @James Dahl nor @Grant can dispute this.

Moorshe
Bendhabow
Iskaashato
Dhabarweyne

The city grew and became cosmopolitan when Shingaani was formed.

View attachment 142372

View attachment 142373

Fakhrudiin was a judge, highly educated and built a Mosque. We know this because his name is still inscribed on the mixraab. Abu Bakr at the time of ibn Battuta was the Ajuran chief of Xamar. He had Somali roots and spoke a local language whilst Arabic was the lingua franca of the region.

The Arab influence isn't disputed, they came in waves throughout the centuries as late as 1930. They are a big part of the city history and culture but ultimately they adopted our language and customs, not the other way around. Factz had all the sources on this.
Do you have any other sources? I read many sources from Enrico Cerulli that say xamar was founded by arab families who were later assimilated by Somalis who arrived in the city later. Your French sources talks about Hawiyes living in the hinterlands which is true, but it doesn't say much about the founders of Xamar.
If u have more sources I'll be more than happy to change my mind.
 

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