Shaykh Hamza Yusuf (May Allah preserve him) says that da'eef hadiths are not the same as false hadiths. I used to think it was. But he says that it's not how classical scholars interpreted it. He says that a "weak" hadith is still a reliable record of the Prophet's statements. Any comments?
Weak Hadiths - How To Spot Them
- Thread starter Bidaar Wanagsan
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Spoken like a true shaytan.
The shaykh says that many hadiths have been lost over the centuries. He talks about old hadith collections that have recently been rediscovered in the middle east that confirm so-called weak hadiths:
Weak, Strong, pointless. They need to re-do the hadith completely from the current character orientated isnad to 'intellect n reason' isnads, surely the sunnah can't contradict our brains!!! Judge hadith by content not the person character, most of the hadith would be in the bin!!! Even a good person can have an agenda which the hadith are clearly rife with!!!
Yes, scholars are doing that now. Consult the work of Sheikh Atabek Shukurov and Isra Khan. They've written books that argue hadiths should be judged on the matn (content) as well as the isnad. They've called for a panel of scholars to revise the Hadiths collections to exclude the many forgeries that have crept in because of this oversight.
Historically, too too much attention was paid to the chain of transmission. You've gotta look at whether the content is sound Quranically, logically, and scientifically. Imam Abu Hanifa used to do this. Bukhari attacked him as a result because he was not content just to look at the narrators. And his attacks were answered by the Imam's students.
@DR OSMAN
It's ironic that people who say that da'eef hadiths are invalid, even though they might be perfectly in line with general Islamic values, will defend "sahih" hadiths that contradict the Quran. Like the Hadiths in Bukhari and Sahih Muslim which say Allah looks like a human being. They claim Allah made Adam in his own image which comes straight from the Bible. From Bukhari:
"Narrated from Abu Hurayrah that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “Allah created Adam in His image, and he was sixty cubits tall. When he created him he said, ‘Go and greet that group of angels who are sitting and listen to how they greet you, for that will be your greeting and the greeting of your descendents.’ So he said, ‘Al-salaamu ‘alaykum,’ and they said, ‘Al-salaamu ‘alayka wa rahmat-Allaah’ So they added (the words) ‘wa rahmat-Allaah.’ Everyone who enters Paradise will be in the form of Adam, but mankind continued to grow shorter until now.”
Sahih Muslim says:
"Abu Hurayrah said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “When any one of you fights his brother, let him avoid the face, for Allah created Adam in His image.”
The Quran says that Allah does not resemble his Creation so that alone disproves this hadith. The uncritical supporters of Bukhari put him above Allah though.
And that's even before we come to the many "sahih" hadiths that are scientifically and logically unsound.
It's ironic that people who say that da'eef hadiths are invalid, even though they might be perfectly in line with general Islamic values, will defend "sahih" hadiths that contradict the Quran. Like the Hadiths in Bukhari and Sahih Muslim which say Allah looks like a human being. They claim Allah made Adam in his own image which comes straight from the Bible. From Bukhari:
"Narrated from Abu Hurayrah that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “Allah created Adam in His image, and he was sixty cubits tall. When he created him he said, ‘Go and greet that group of angels who are sitting and listen to how they greet you, for that will be your greeting and the greeting of your descendents.’ So he said, ‘Al-salaamu ‘alaykum,’ and they said, ‘Al-salaamu ‘alayka wa rahmat-Allaah’ So they added (the words) ‘wa rahmat-Allaah.’ Everyone who enters Paradise will be in the form of Adam, but mankind continued to grow shorter until now.”
Sahih Muslim says:
"Abu Hurayrah said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “When any one of you fights his brother, let him avoid the face, for Allah created Adam in His image.”
The Quran says that Allah does not resemble his Creation so that alone disproves this hadith. The uncritical supporters of Bukhari put him above Allah though.
And that's even before we come to the many "sahih" hadiths that are scientifically and logically unsound.
Why?
@DR OSMAN
The people who defend "sahih" collections not only believe hadiths that contradict the Quran, they believe hadiths that contradict themselves. Some "authentic" hadiths claim the prophet died when he was 6o, others claim when he was 63, and still others say he was 65. See if you can spot the discrepancies:
Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 190:
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:
Allah's Apostle was inspired Divinely at the age of forty. Then he stayed in Mecca for thirteen years, and then was ordered to migrate, and he migrated to Medina and stayed there for ten years and then died.
Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 242:
Narrated Ibn Abbas:
Allah's Apostle started receiving the Divine Inspiration at the age of forty. Then he stayed in Mecca for thirteen years, receiving the Divine Revelation. Then he was ordered to migrate and he lived as an Emigrant for ten years and then died at the age of sixty-three (years).
Bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 741:
Narrated Aisha and Ibn 'Abbas:
The Prophet stayed for ten years in Mecca with the Qur'an being revealed to him and he stayed in Medina for ten years.'
Bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 742:
Narrated 'Aisha:
Allah's Apostle died when he was sixty-three years of age.
Muslim Book 030, Number 5794:
Anas b. Malik reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) was neither very conspicuously tall nor short-statured, and his color was neither glaringly white nor brown; his hair was neither very curly nor very straight; Allah commissioned him (as a Prophet) when he had reached the age of forty years, and he stayed in Mecca for ten years and for ten years in Medina; Allah took him away when he had just reached the age of sixty, and there had not been twenty white hair in his head and beard.
Muslim Book 030, Number 5805:
Ammar, the freed slave of Banu Hashim, reported: I asked Ibn 'Abbas how old was he when death overtook the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him). He said: I little know that such a thing is not known to a man like you who belong to his people. He said: I asked people about it but they differed with me, and I liked to know your opinion about it. He said: Do you know counting? He said: Yes. He then said: Bear this in mind very well that he was commissioned (as a Prophet) at the age of forty, and he stayed in Mecca for fifteen years; sometime in peace and sometime in dread, and (lived) for ten years after his migration to Medina.
Let's examine the contradictions in Bukhari so far. How old was the Prophet when he died?
Bukhari 4:56:747 and 4:56:748 say he was 40+10+10= 60 years old.
Bukhari 5:58:242 and 5:59:742 say he was 63 years old.
How long did the Prophet stay in Mecca after revelation commenced?
Bukhari 4:56:747 and 4:56:748 say he stayed in Mecca for 10 years.
Bukhari 5:58:190 and 5:59:741 say he stayed in Mecca for 13 years.
Now turn to the contradictions in Sahih Muslim. How old was the Prophet (pbuh) when he died?
Sahih Muslim 030:5794 – He was 60.
Sahih Muslim 030:5805 – He was 40+15+10=65 years old.
There's tonnes more here by this brother:
http://www.mohammedamin.com/Community_issues/How-reliable-are-hadith.html
The people who defend "sahih" collections not only believe hadiths that contradict the Quran, they believe hadiths that contradict themselves. Some "authentic" hadiths claim the prophet died when he was 6o, others claim when he was 63, and still others say he was 65. See if you can spot the discrepancies:
Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 190:
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:
Allah's Apostle was inspired Divinely at the age of forty. Then he stayed in Mecca for thirteen years, and then was ordered to migrate, and he migrated to Medina and stayed there for ten years and then died.
Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 242:
Narrated Ibn Abbas:
Allah's Apostle started receiving the Divine Inspiration at the age of forty. Then he stayed in Mecca for thirteen years, receiving the Divine Revelation. Then he was ordered to migrate and he lived as an Emigrant for ten years and then died at the age of sixty-three (years).
Bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 741:
Narrated Aisha and Ibn 'Abbas:
The Prophet stayed for ten years in Mecca with the Qur'an being revealed to him and he stayed in Medina for ten years.'
Bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 742:
Narrated 'Aisha:
Allah's Apostle died when he was sixty-three years of age.
Muslim Book 030, Number 5794:
Anas b. Malik reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) was neither very conspicuously tall nor short-statured, and his color was neither glaringly white nor brown; his hair was neither very curly nor very straight; Allah commissioned him (as a Prophet) when he had reached the age of forty years, and he stayed in Mecca for ten years and for ten years in Medina; Allah took him away when he had just reached the age of sixty, and there had not been twenty white hair in his head and beard.
Muslim Book 030, Number 5805:
Ammar, the freed slave of Banu Hashim, reported: I asked Ibn 'Abbas how old was he when death overtook the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him). He said: I little know that such a thing is not known to a man like you who belong to his people. He said: I asked people about it but they differed with me, and I liked to know your opinion about it. He said: Do you know counting? He said: Yes. He then said: Bear this in mind very well that he was commissioned (as a Prophet) at the age of forty, and he stayed in Mecca for fifteen years; sometime in peace and sometime in dread, and (lived) for ten years after his migration to Medina.
Let's examine the contradictions in Bukhari so far. How old was the Prophet when he died?
Bukhari 4:56:747 and 4:56:748 say he was 40+10+10= 60 years old.
Bukhari 5:58:242 and 5:59:742 say he was 63 years old.
How long did the Prophet stay in Mecca after revelation commenced?
Bukhari 4:56:747 and 4:56:748 say he stayed in Mecca for 10 years.
Bukhari 5:58:190 and 5:59:741 say he stayed in Mecca for 13 years.
Now turn to the contradictions in Sahih Muslim. How old was the Prophet (pbuh) when he died?
Sahih Muslim 030:5794 – He was 60.
Sahih Muslim 030:5805 – He was 40+15+10=65 years old.
There's tonnes more here by this brother:
http://www.mohammedamin.com/Community_issues/How-reliable-are-hadith.html
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