Was ibn khaldun racist to black people?

[Character]

very interesting conversation about ibn khaldun

 

[Qeelbax]

Yes is that even up for discussion

 

[somalipatriot]

Yes is that even up for discussion

If we include ourselves in this it only makes us look pathetic and people who claim racism are never taken serious

 

[Qeelbax]

Niinkan biishimaha la’an wuu hadhal badnaa. Dadka Madhow biishima howdha oo masayrijirey, sidaas darteed wuxuu dareemay niyad jab. markaas wuxu qoray buugo cansuuri ah.

 

[Qeelbax]

If we include ourselves in this it only makes us look pathetic and people who claim racism are never taken serious

He was a racist that isn’t something you can deny.
“Therefore, the Negro nation are, as a rule, submissive to slavery, because [Negroes] have little [that is essentially] human and have attributes that are quite similar to those of dumb animals, as we have stated."
-Ibn Khaldun.

This isn’t something about being taken seriously. He’s a textbook racist, will you go and change the meaning of racism? It’s not something you can deny, it’s what he is.

And I don’t include somalis in this. I believe this was about the people HIS people enslaved. Somalis are not some bushmen, we had empires and whatnot during Ibn Khalduns time of existence. Regardless, someone who thinks like this I don’t care for. He was no imam or religious scholar, since he claims he’s all that, he should’ve applied his islamic teachings and knowledge into his own life and not speak of others like that. Mind you his people were the same ones who’d go across the Mediterranean and steal women, he as a berber has no right to speak of any group.

 

[Qeelbax]

He shitalked arabs as well. Wallahi this berber is interesting for thinking north africans are all that. He was actually okay with somalis. Never said anything negative but he hated arabs and blacks

 

[Apollo]

Everyone was racist back then.

Don't apply modern standards to people who lived centuries ago.

 

[somalipatriot]

He was a racist that isn’t something you can deny.
“Therefore, the Negro nation are, as a rule, submissive to slavery, because [Negroes] have little [that is essentially] human and have attributes that are quite similar to those of dumb animals, as we have stated."
-Ibn Khaldun.

This isn’t something about being taken seriously. He’s a textbook racist, will you go and change the meaning of racism? It’s not something you can deny, it’s what he is.

And I don’t include somalis in this. I believe this was about the people HIS people enslaved. Somalis are not some bushmen, we had empires and whatnot during Ibn Khalduns time of existence. Regardless, someone who thinks like this I don’t care for. He was no imam or religious scholar, since he claims he’s all that, he should’ve applied his islamic teachings and knowledge into his own life and not speak of others like that. Mind you his people were the same ones who’d go across the Mediterranean and steal women, he as a berber has no right to speak of any group.

Good points and also historical facts but what I wanted to point out is the man is unimportant and totally worn out he is mostly forgotten by the younger generation the irony is what the berbers are and have faced in North Africa systematic arabisation for the last 60 years and their culture disappearing

 

[abdi142#]

He was a racist that isn’t something you can deny.
“Therefore, the Negro nation are, as a rule, submissive to slavery, because [Negroes] have little [that is essentially] human and have attributes that are quite similar to those of dumb animals, as we have stated."
-Ibn Khaldun.

This isn’t something about being taken seriously. He’s a textbook racist, will you go and change the meaning of racism? It’s not something you can deny, it’s what he is.

And I don’t include somalis in this. I believe this was about the people HIS people enslaved. Somalis are not some bushmen, we had empires and whatnot during Ibn Khalduns time of existence. Regardless, someone who thinks like this I don’t care for. He was no imam or religious scholar, since he claims he’s all that, he should’ve applied his islamic teachings and knowledge into his own life and not speak of others like that. Mind you his people were the same ones who’d go across the Mediterranean and steal women, he as a berber has no right to speak of any group.

In his book:
"There, to the east, the country of the Zanj adjoins them. Then comes the city of Mogadishu, a very populous city with many merchants, yet nomad in character, on the southern coast of the Indian Ocean. Adjoining it to the east is the country of the Sufilah on the southern coast in the seventh section of the first zone."
He was mad racist to sudanese people tho.

 

[Qeelbax]

In his book:
"There, to the east, the country of the Zanj adjoins them. Then comes the city of Mogadishu, a very populous city with many merchants, yet nomad in character, on the southern coast of the Indian Ocean. Adjoining it to the east is the country of the Sufilah on the southern coast in the seventh section of the first zone."
He was mad racist to sudanese people tho.

Yes he called bejas neg but considered somalis berbers. Little did he know.

He hated arabs too, I wonder what he would have that about his people being arabs now

 

[Dualke]

Ibn Khaldun clearly had his shortcomings but at the same time provided a lot of intellectual merit to Islam, philosophy, history etc. To ignore that because it doesn't subscribe to 21st century ethics is truly stupid.

 

[Aurelian]

called arabs babaric cause he had some bad experience with them, he slanders anyone who he has a shallow view of them, if he knew about kush and its history he wouldn't said that.

 

[Apollo]

Ibn Khaldun clearly had his shortcomings but at the same time provided a lot of intellectual merit to Islam, philosophy, history etc. To ignore that because it doesn't subscribe to 21st century ethics is truly stupid.

In the 2200s they will look down on people from the 2000s who ate meat or Westerners who bought fast fashion clothes from Bangladesh/Vietnam etc.

Basically anybody who now isn't like Greta Thunberg.

 

[SOMALI GENERAL]

He was a man of his time, so of course he was a racist [open racism was the norm in ye Olde days], but that doesn't take away from the fact he was a great Philosopher.

Despite Global religions like Christianity & Islam [Anti-racism religions] becoming increasingly popular in his time, peoples/nations were in a constant struggle against each other and racism/ethnocentrism was the main fuel as it has always been.

 

[Apollo]

He was a man of his time, so of course he was a racist [open racism was the norm in ye Olde days], but that doesn't take away from the fact he was a great Philosopher.

Despite Global religions like Christianity & Islam [Anti-racism religions] becoming increasingly popular in his time, peoples/nations were in a constant struggle against each other and racism/ethnocentrism was the main fuel as it has always been.

The racism the Anglos had against the Irish was kind of hilarious. They really thought the Irish were a semi-different race from Anglos.



Germans and to a lesser degree Scandinavians also viewed Slavs & Finns as if they were really different racially.

Neither were true in retrospect.

 

[Amk]

In the 2200s they will look down on people from the 2000s who ate meat or Westerners who bought fast fashion clothes from Bangladesh/Vietnam etc.

Basically anybody who now isn't like Greta Thunberg.

Thy will look down on people who lived in western countries who payed taxes for the country to bomb the countries they come from and also benefit from all the money that the west robbed from the entire world
#cancelled

 

[SOMALI GENERAL]

The racism the Anglos had against the Irish was kind of hilarious. They really thought the Irish were a semi-different race from Anglos.



Germans and to a lesser degree Scandinavians also viewed Slavs & Finns as if they were really different racially.

Neither were true in retrospect.

The Anglos treated the Irishmen badly mainly because they viewed the Gaelic culture as inferior and done a very good job of eliminating a large part of Irish culture which was the Irish language. The retarded racial theories about Irish people came much later in the 19th/early 20th century & were made by wackos.

 

[SOMALI GENERAL]

@Apollo

Weirdly enough, the Irishman's massive contribution to the British Empire can't be ignored. It's a weird paradox because they were England's first colony and yet the Irish went on to become the great maintainers and conquerors for the British Empire.

Honestly, the Irish were better off staying united with their British brethren, since the only real difference between them is their English accent

Check out this article: Ireland's role in British empire-building

 

[Kool-Aid]

Ibn Fadlan On The Vikings AKA The Rus!​

https://www.somalispot.com/threads/ibn-fadlan-10th-century-arab-muslim-traveler-accounts-of-the-vikings-aka-the-rus.126358/#post-3176510