Thousands Of Congolese Chant "Putin, Come & Protect The Congolese."

[Omar del Sur]

I'm a Secularist so race matters to me a lot more than religious devotion; I simply can't imagine having bonds of kinship with non-blacks -- especially in light of history.

Yes, this is a big problem I have with the nationalism thing. I don't think nationalism really become as big a thing until after the West secularized. I think it's ironic that you have these supposed conservative/reactionary forces that rally behind nationalism when it's kind of a modern thing. Prior to the so-called "Enlightenment," I think armies rallied behind the banner of religion.

Nationalism is sort of a competitor religion to religion. Nationalism goes hand in hand with secularism.

This is a problem I have with European Union type things. These kinds of entities imo inherently trend towards secularism.

So anyways, I think we need to return to where nations and armies rally behind religion.

In my ideal vision of Sub-Saharan Africa, any black African leader that tries to create emotional attachments with non-Africans would either be eliminated or forbidden from participating in the political environment.

Now of course the secular nationalist vision you espouse would come into conflict with Islamic doctrine. Alhamdulilaah Muslims in Africa are a serious force.

My own vision is Muslims should rule the world and I believe Muslim Africans should rule Africa.

It is a zero-sum game- so-called "Islamists" win or secularists win. Fortunately, Africa is full of religious types and I don't think many of the people on the ground are atheists. So I think the atheists had better not get too bold.

Africa historically has been a place where Westerners, Russians, Chinese and even Latin Americans backed given factions. I don't think that's going to change anytime soon.

I do not believe Africa will ever be united under secularism but I believe portions and then increasing portions will be united under the banner of Islam.

 

[Hotchick12]

Apparently Rwanda is annexing their lands or they are allowing their militias to control the lands in Congo which are resourceful, Russia Wagner foreign army is in Congo fighting these militias. The West allowed Rwanda to exploit Congo, you think Rwanda with little resources have all these successes without being next to Congo

 

[Hotchick12]

Congolese hate Rwanda

 

[Nilotic]

Yes, this is a big problem I have with the nationalism thing. I don't think nationalism really become as big a thing until after the West secularized. I think it's ironic that you have these supposed conservative/reactionary forces that rally behind nationalism when it's kind of a modern thing. Prior to the so-called "Enlightenment," I think armies rallied behind the banner of religion.

Nationalism is sort of a competitor religion to religion. Nationalism goes hand in hand with secularism.

This is a problem I have with European Union type things. These kinds of entities imo inherently trend towards secularism.

So anyways, I think we need to return to where nations and armies rally behind religion.




Now of course the secular nationalist vision you espouse would come into conflict with Islamic doctrine. Alhamdulilaah Muslims in Africa are a serious force.

My own vision is Muslims should rule the world and I believe Muslim Africans should rule Africa.

It is a zero-sum game- so-called "Islamists" win or secularists win. Fortunately, Africa is full of religious types and I don't think many of the people on the ground are atheists. So I think the atheists had better not get too bold.

Africa historically has been a place where Westerners, Russians, Chinese and even Latin Americans backed given factions. I don't think that's going to change anytime soon.

I do not believe Africa will ever be united under secularism but I believe portions and then increasing portions will be united under the banner of Islam.

Nationalism is more natural than some notion of a united Christiandom or an Ummah; it will always be easier to make people identify with people that look like them.

The History of the Arabs in Africa will also make it obscenely easy to destroy the notion of kinship with Arabs in the minds of black Africans; the propaganda could achieve this with the utmost ease.

Religious types will eventually be pushed aside and forced to wallow in obscurity.

I would seriously be in favour of stopping the Catholic church from funding religious institutions and from selecting representatives in Africa; and I would also be in favour of stopping the Saudis and the Gulf Countries from funding religious schools in Africa.

I'll try to be as respectful as I can when I say this... but don't Arabs have an elevated position within Islam? I'm sorry to say, but this runs counter to the need of Africans to rebuild their thoroughly shattered self-esteem and their own power...

..I honestly don't believe that black Africans should even entertain the notion of kinship with outsiders.

 

[Omar del Sur]

..I honestly don't believe that black Africans should even entertain the notion of kinship with outsiders.

Nationalism is more natural than some notion of a united Christiandom or an Ummah; it will always be easier to make people identify with people that look like them.

I want to start here because this goes back to something very important- Al-Wala Wal Bara.

But let me get back to that in a moment to dispel something very easy and simple- Islam is NOT Christianity. The Ummah is not "united Christiandom". I've read the Bible and I don't remember anything about "united Christiandom" in the Bible. Meanwhile Islam is very explicit about the brotherhood of the Muslims. Contrary to what anyone may say- the concept that Muslims are one ummah is an integral part of Islam. You cannot remove it without removing a part from Islam.

And hold firmly to the rope of Allāh all together and do not become divided.


-Surah Ali Imran 3:103


so Muslims should not become divided over race or tribe. and there are numerous proofs for the importance of Muslim unity. Muslims of course take the Ummah much more seriously than Christians take any "united Christiandom" concept. We must remember that Islam is superior to all other religions including Christianity. Islam is exceptional. Islam is superior to all other ways of life.

The History of the Arabs in Africa will also make it obscenely easy to destroy the notion of kinship with Arabs in the minds of black Africans; the propaganda could achieve this with the utmost ease.

Religious types will eventually be pushed aside and forced to wallow in obscurity.

so you will use propaganda to divide Muslims and defeat Islam?

They want to extinguish the light of Allāh with their mouths, but Allāh will perfect His light, although the disbelievers dislike it.

Surah As-Saf 61: 8

I would seriously be in favour of stopping the Catholic church from funding religious institutions and from selecting representatives in Africa; and I would also be in favour of stopping the Saudis and the Gulf Countries from funding religious schools in Africa.

I'll try to be as respectful as I can when I say this... but don't Arabs have an elevated position within Islam? I'm sorry to say, but this runs counter to the need of Africans to rebuild their thoroughly shattered self-esteem and their own power...

Well I'm all for getting Catholicism out of Africa. But getting Islam out of Africa is simply not happening- independently of what you want or what I want. Do Arabs have an elevated position within Islam? I think yes and no. I do think they merit a certain respect provided that they are Muslim but at the end of the day superiority is by taqwa and not by race.

My thing is.... how many atheists are there on the ground in Africa and how many Muslims are there on the ground? I don't think the secularization of Africa is ever going to happen. I think the future for all the world is Islamization. However, before the world ends Muslims will disappear and the world will be full of evil people. But I believe that is after Dajjal appears, after Jesus (peace be upon him) returns and all that.

Anyways, I forgot to talk about Al-Wala Wal-Bara. Let me address that.

It is stupid to love or hate on the basis of race. Some person is the same race as you- yet they might stab you in the back (and this happens all the time). Some person is a different race but they're a genuine friend (and this happens all the time).

"Shaykh Ibn Baaz (may Allah have mercy on him) was asked: Please could you explain the concept of loyalty and disavowal (al-wala’ wa’l-bara’): to whom does it apply and is it permissible to take the disbelievers as allies and friends?

He replied: what is meant by loyalty and disavowal (al-wala’ wa’l-bara’) is loving the believers and taking them as allies and friends, and hating the disbelievers, regarding them as enemies and disavowing them and their religion. This is what is meant by loyalty and disavowal (al-wala’ wa’l-bara’), as Allah, may He be glorified, says in Soorat al-Mumtahinah (interpretation of the meaning):

“There has already been for you an excellent pattern in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people, ‘Indeed, we are disassociated from you and from whatever you worship other than Allah . We have denied you, and there has appeared between us and you animosity and hatred forever until you believe in Allah alone’”

[al-Mumtahinah 60:4].

Hating them and regarding them as enemies does not mean that you should mistreat them or transgress against them if they are not in a state of war with the Muslims. Rather what it means is hating them in your heart and regarding them as enemies in your heart, and not taking them as friends. But you should not offend them, harm them or mistreat them. If they greet you, then return their greeting, advise them sincerely and direct them to do good, as Allah, may He be glorified and exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And do not argue with the People of the Scripture except in a way that is best, except for those who commit injustice among them”

[al-‘Ankaboot 29:46].

The People of the Scripture are the Jews and Christians, and other disbelievers who have been granted security, or have a peace treaty with the Muslims, or are living under Muslim rule. But whoever among them commits injustice is to be punished for his injustice and wrongdoing, otherwise what is prescribed for the believer is to argue with them in the way that is best, with both the Muslims and the disbelievers, whilst hating them for the sake of Allah, because of the verse quoted above.

End quote from Majmoo‘ Fataawa Ibn Baaz (5/246)."

https://islamqa.info/en/answers/337640/the-concept-of-loyalty-and-disavowal-al-wala-wal-bara-and-its-importance#loyalty-and-disavowal-al-wala-wa-l-bara-is-one-of-the-basic-principles-of-tawheed-affirmation-of-the-oneness-of-allah

So you should love and hate for the sake of Allah not for the sake of tribe or race.

 

[Omar del Sur]

Religious types will eventually be pushed aside and forced to wallow in obscurity.

btw religious types are the future because religious types are the ones who make babies; the atheists apparently can't be bothered to procreate.

 

[Nilotic]

I want to start here because this goes back to something very important- Al-Wala Wal Bara.

But let me get back to that in a moment to dispel something very easy and simple- Islam is NOT Christianity. The Ummah is not "united Christiandom". I've read the Bible and I don't remember anything about "united Christiandom" in the Bible. Meanwhile Islam is very explicit about the brotherhood of the Muslims. Contrary to what anyone may say- the concept that Muslims are one ummah is an integral part of Islam. You cannot remove it without removing a part from Islam.

And hold firmly to the rope of Allāh all together and do not become divided.


-Surah Ali Imran 3:103


so Muslims should not become divided over race or tribe. and there are numerous proofs for the importance of Muslim unity. Muslims of course take the Ummah much more seriously than Christians take any "united Christiandom" concept. We must remember that Islam is superior to all other religions including Christianity. Islam is exceptional. Islam is superior to all other ways of life.



so you will use propaganda to divide Muslims and defeat Islam?

They want to extinguish the light of Allāh with their mouths, but Allāh will perfect His light, although the disbelievers dislike it.

Surah As-Saf 61: 8





Well I'm all for getting Catholicism out of Africa. But getting Islam out of Africa is simply not happening- independently of what you want or what I want. Do Arabs have an elevated position within Islam? I think yes and no. I do think they merit a certain respect provided that they are Muslim but at the end of the day superiority is by taqwa and not by race.

My thing is.... how many atheists are there on the ground in Africa and how many Muslims are there on the ground? I don't think the secularization of Africa is ever going to happen. I think the future for all the world is Islamization. However, before the world ends Muslims will disappear and the world will be full of evil people. But I believe that is after Dajjal appears, after Jesus (peace be upon him) returns and all that.

Anyways, I forgot to talk about Al-Wala Wal-Bara. Let me address that.

It is stupid to love or hate on the basis of race. Some person is the same race as you- yet they might stab you in the back (and this happens all the time). Some person is a different race but they're a genuine friend (and this happens all the time).

"Shaykh Ibn Baaz (may Allah have mercy on him) was asked: Please could you explain the concept of loyalty and disavowal (al-wala’ wa’l-bara’): to whom does it apply and is it permissible to take the disbelievers as allies and friends?

He replied: what is meant by loyalty and disavowal (al-wala’ wa’l-bara’) is loving the believers and taking them as allies and friends, and hating the disbelievers, regarding them as enemies and disavowing them and their religion. This is what is meant by loyalty and disavowal (al-wala’ wa’l-bara’), as Allah, may He be glorified, says in Soorat al-Mumtahinah (interpretation of the meaning):

“There has already been for you an excellent pattern in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people, ‘Indeed, we are disassociated from you and from whatever you worship other than Allah . We have denied you, and there has appeared between us and you animosity and hatred forever until you believe in Allah alone’”

[al-Mumtahinah 60:4].

Hating them and regarding them as enemies does not mean that you should mistreat them or transgress against them if they are not in a state of war with the Muslims. Rather what it means is hating them in your heart and regarding them as enemies in your heart, and not taking them as friends. But you should not offend them, harm them or mistreat them. If they greet you, then return their greeting, advise them sincerely and direct them to do good, as Allah, may He be glorified and exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And do not argue with the People of the Scripture except in a way that is best, except for those who commit injustice among them”

[al-‘Ankaboot 29:46].

The People of the Scripture are the Jews and Christians, and other disbelievers who have been granted security, or have a peace treaty with the Muslims, or are living under Muslim rule. But whoever among them commits injustice is to be punished for his injustice and wrongdoing, otherwise what is prescribed for the believer is to argue with them in the way that is best, with both the Muslims and the disbelievers, whilst hating them for the sake of Allah, because of the verse quoted above.

End quote from Majmoo‘ Fataawa Ibn Baaz (5/246)."

https://islamqa.info/en/answers/337640/the-concept-of-loyalty-and-disavowal-al-wala-wal-bara-and-its-importance#loyalty-and-disavowal-al-wala-wa-l-bara-is-one-of-the-basic-principles-of-tawheed-affirmation-of-the-oneness-of-allah

So you should love and hate for the sake of Allah not for the sake of tribe or race.

Whoa, why would I want to defeat Islam? I just want a Secular form of Government; this guarantees that the population is not divided on religious grounds.

The concept of the Ummah is one of the most beautiful tenants of Islam, but history matters, so the idea that black Africans should unite with Arabs is ludicrous on its face.

Africans are so far behind that even if an Ummah was established, they would most likely dwell at the bottom of that power structure and that's a revolting notion to me.

Centuries of weaknesses, conquest, colonisation, slavery and demoralisation can only be overcome with a singular, laser focused on the collective self in a black Nationalist sense.

You seem to think that Secularists have to compete with the much larger of religious people; we don't need to have the same demographic heft, however, we do need to target the power centres.

Most people with religious beliefs are not going to try to establish a theocracy because they just wish to live their lives; the small minority of zealots will have to be swept aside and sidelined