The war on Somali girls

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RedStar

The Bad Ali of Jigjiga
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Do you know how easy it is to get the title of "Sheikh" in the Somali community? I know of at least 3 "Sheikhs" who have been caught lying so this is not an isolated incident.
That is exactly my point. I just wanted to tell @gegiroor that it is wrong for him to defend all Somali 'sheikhs' because a lot of them are downright liars.
 

SuldaanMethylamine

Scheming from Salaxley
AUN but he was in a class of his own. Many of these so called Somali Sheikhs are walking and talking hypocrites who need to have their titles stripped.
True, it's time we start challenging these "Sheikhs" about the claims they put out in videos. In fact in Islam it is encouraged that we pursue the sources to claims, and not blindly follow what someone says whether or not they're "scholars"
 

RedStar

The Bad Ali of Jigjiga
VIP
There's a lot of Somali Shuyookh out there who shouldn't have the title of Sheikh, however there are many Somali scholars who are in a class of their own. An example of one would be Sh. Maxamed Rashaad (AUN). He was one of the few Somali Shuyookh who could connect with the youth, and devoted a tremendous amount of time for the community. May Allah grant him Jannatul Firdaws.
Ameen. I got the chance to listen to his lectures live and it makes me angry that liar Shibli was present at the same conference being paraded as a sheikh of equal rank.
 

Duchess

HBIC| PhD in Langaab Studies | ๐’๐’™๐’Ž๐’™๐’‡๐’–๐’†๐’–
VIP
True, it's time we start challenging these "Sheikhs" about their claims they put out in videos. In fact in Islam it is encouraged that we pursue the sources to claims, and blindly follow what someone says whether or not they're "scholars"
What about the Sheikhs who charge poor Somali mothers hundreds of dollars for 1 hr of Ruqyah? Some of these "Sheikhs" have turned the religion into a business.:mindblown:
 

SuldaanMethylamine

Scheming from Salaxley
What about the Sheikhs who charge poor Somali mothers hundreds of dollars for 1 hr of Ruqyah? Some of these "Sheikhs" have turned the religion into a business.:mindblown:
I can sort of understand Shuyookh charging money for their services as being Sheikh is a full-time job (if done properly) and living in a non-Muslim country means you are not provided income by the state. But $100+/hour is ridiculous :snoop:
 

Duchess

HBIC| PhD in Langaab Studies | ๐’๐’™๐’Ž๐’™๐’‡๐’–๐’†๐’–
VIP
I can sort of understand Shuyookh charging money for their services as being Sheikh is a full-time job (if done properly) and living in a non-Muslim country means you are not provided income by the state. But $100+/hour is ridiculous :snoop:
You're allowed to charge people for your services but several hundred dollars ( around $400-500) per person is the going rate for Ruqya with some of these Sheikhs. That's robbery.
 
What are you talking about? No one blamed all of the Somali sheikhs because of Shibli's lie. It is no secret that a lot of Somali sheikhs are greedy fuckers who have awarded themselves the sheikh title by memorising half the Qur'an and a few hadeeths. I'd rather be suspicious of unknown sheikhs than be sorry for being fed misinformation.
Let me show you how easy it is to fall in the trap of these fake scholars... Shibli used to give talks in front of thousands of people every year in Sweden and Norway. Some members of my mosque used to organise trips from London to those conferences where he would line up alongside Sh Abdurashid Ali Sufi and Sh Mohamed Rashad. Back then he was paraded as a great Somali scholar. Now imagine how many has he misguided with his fabrications because he is obviously a shameless liar. There could be thousands like Shibli in the closet so spare me your bravado, no one is above criticism. Especially not the scholars, because we rely on them for authentic interpretations of the deen.
Well, with your comment, "It is no secret that a lot of Somali sheikhs are greedy fuckers who have awarded themselves the sheikh title by memorising half the Qur'an and a few hadeeths," I think you're committing a character assassination against many Somali sheikhs without any hard evidence. You're basically committing the same mistake that Sheikh Shible has been accused of committing. In Islam, without any hard evidence, we can't attack the ulema. If they memorize half of the Quran and few hadiths, they are still doing better than you who has to prove his credentials of knowing any thing about the deen. From your attacks and the broad generalizations that you're making, I can safely say you're someone who need spiritual guidance. You may want to re-evaluate your situation, as I and others should always do, instead of going after people who are doing better than you. When I say better than you, I mean people who are making an effort to learn the deen and convey it to other Muslims.

In their effort to convey the deen, of course they will make mistakes as we are humans and prone to make mistakes. However, they are teaching the Quran to our children and anyone else who want to learn it. They are communicating to us with whatever religious knowledge they have, and they perform many community events that no one else has undertaken.

What I don't understand is, instead of attacking all Somali sheikhs, why don't you go after Sheikh Shible and have him proved his charge or issue an apology? What is this scapegoating that you're leading by going after Somali sheikhs? On one hand you and others like you did not take this initiative to go after Sheikh Shible, and on the other hand, you're going after nearly all Somali Islamic scholars. Sir / Madam, it is clear that you seem to be someone who has an agenda and it is one that fits in a clear agenda - an agenda that has been clearly repeated in this site!

Listen here condescending grandpa, you can't call every imam, muadin, student of knowledge or preacher a scholar/sheikh. That title has to be earned through many years of dedication to religious texts and memorisation of Qur'an and its Tafsir. How many of those tens of thousands have done that other than memorising the Qur'an and studying Arabic?
It is true that some of the ulema don't follow the fiqh (Islamic jurisprudence), and some of these are literalists. I am a follower of the Hanafi Islamic School of Thought in Sunni Islam. Lately, some, if not many of the Somali Islamic scholars, have been following the Hanbali School of Thought. Others still follow Shafi'i School of Thought. Still, in my view, no matter what school of thought they follow, they have been making efforts of teaching the deen to our people, they have been warning us fitna of this dunya today, and they have been making efforts to call people to the faith. If you or others have an issue the way they classify themselves as sheikhs and the criteria they follow in order to be accepted as a sheikh, you need to take that up with them and challenge them. Writing in forums where there are many Islamophobes who would use your criticism into their anti Islam campaign is not going help you nor the ummah in general, and Somali Muslims in particular. You may want to reconsider your approach provided that you're a Muslim.

If you allow any guy who carries the 'sheikh' title to educate you on the deen, then you really should heed the advice of Ibn Sirin Al Ansari: "This knowledge is a matter of deen, so be careful who you take your deen from."
If anyone is suspicious of some of the sheikhs, other learned Islamic scholars need to be approached and informed. They should test that sheikh or certain sheikhs and issue a verdict. However, this approach that you and others are taking is not only wrong but actually a dangerous one. If you're a Muslim and your effort is a genuine one, you're choosing the wrong venue by posting here in this thread. The generalizations that you're making can put the misinformed against their faith or leading them into the wrong venue, and can provide ammunition to those who have anti Islam agenda. Choose your words and the venue that you're using wisely is all that I can suggest you. If you're a Muslim, that is my brotherly advice to you. Don't be one that initiates a fitna.

Adeer, you were indirectly giving me a reply. I didn't address the theme of this thread or whatever it is you believe was the inspiration behind this thread. I simply commented on Shibli's lie. Maybe you should put on your reading glasses and reply back to the correct person.
I replied to a topic. I don't remember quoting you, so not sure how do you come to the conclusion that I was going after you. May be it is time that you shouldn't be emotional but reread the topic. Besides, no matter who the person is, if I see any thing that needs my response, especially religious matters, I will respond to it. Don't personalize it. It was not intended for anyone especially, but it was a response made to a comment that generalized all Somali sheikhs, and since no one else refuted it, I felt I need to respond to it.

I would end here by advising you and others, when it comes to discussing religious topics, choose it wisely when you're commenting on certain sensitive issues that can mislead many people. You don't want to be the one whose comments put people on a collision course against their deen. Again that advice is applicable to you if you're a Muslim. Take care, and keep it mind my comments were not personal to you or anyone else!
 

RedStar

The Bad Ali of Jigjiga
VIP
Well, with your comment, "It is no secret that a lot of Somali sheikhs are greedy fuckers who have awarded themselves the sheikh title by memorising half the Qur'an and a few hadeeths," I think you're committing a character assassination against many Somali sheikhs without any hard evidence. You're basically committing the same mistake that Sheikh Shible has been accused of committing. In Islam, without any hard evidence, we can't attack the ulema. If they memorize half of the Quran and few hadiths, they are still doing better than you who has to prove his credentials of knowing any thing about the deen. From your attacks and the broad generalizations that you're making, I can safely say you're someone who need spiritual guidance. You may want to re-evaluate your situation, as I and others should always do, instead of going after people who are doing better than you. When I say better than you, I mean people who are making an effort to learn the deen and convey it to other Muslims.

In their effort to convey the deen, of course they will make mistakes as we are humans and prone to make mistakes. However, they are teaching the Quran to our children and anyone else who want to learn it. They are communicating to us with whatever religious knowledge they have, and they perform many community events that no one else has undertaken.

What I don't understand is, instead of attacking all Somali sheikhs, why don't you go after Sheikh Shible and have him proved his charge or issue an apology? What is this scapegoating that you're leading by going after Somali sheikhs? On one hand you and others like you did not take this initiative to go after Sheikh Shible, and on the other hand, you're going after nearly all Somali Islamic scholars. Sir / Madam, it is clear that you seem to be someone who has an agenda and it is one that fits in a clear agenda - an agenda that has been clearly repeated in this site!



It is true that some of the ulema don't follow the fiqh (Islamic jurisprudence), and some of these are literalists. I am a follower of the Hanafi Islamic School of Thought in Sunni Islam. Lately, some, if not many of the Somali Islamic scholars, have been following the Hanbali School of Thought. Others still follow Shafi'i School of Thought. Still, in my view, no matter what school of thought they follow, they have been making efforts of teaching the deen to our people, they have been warning us fitna of this dunya today, and they have been making efforts to call people to the faith. If you or others have an issue the way they classify themselves as sheikhs and the criteria they follow in order to be accepted as a sheikh, you need to take that up with them and challenge them. Writing in forums where there are many Islamophobes who would use your criticism into their anti Islam campaign is not going help you nor the ummah in general, and Somali Muslims in particular. You may want to reconsider your approach provided that you're a Muslim.



If anyone is suspicious of some of the sheikhs, other learned Islamic scholars need to be approached and informed. They should test that sheikh or certain sheikhs and issue a verdict. However, this approach that you and others are taking is not only wrong but actually a dangerous one. If you're a Muslim and your effort is a genuine one, you're choosing the wrong venue by posting here in this thread. The generalizations that you're making can put the misinformed against their faith or leading them into the wrong venue, and can provide ammunition to those who have anti Islam agenda. Choose your words and the venue that you're using wisely is all that I can suggest you. If you're a Muslim, that is my brotherly advice to you. Don't be one that initiates a fitna.



I replied to a topic. I don't remember quoting you, so not sure how do you come to the conclusion that I was going after you. May be it is time that you shouldn't be emotional but reread the topic. Besides, no matter who the person is, if I see any thing that needs my response, especially religious matters, I will respond to it. Don't personalize it. It was not intended for anyone especially, but it was a response made to a comment that generalized all Somali sheikhs, and since no one else refuted it, I felt I need to respond to it.

I would end here by advising you and others, when it comes to discussing religious topics, choose it wisely when you're commenting on certain sensitive issues that can mislead many people. You don't want to be the one whose comments put people on a collision course against their deen. Again that advice is applicable to you if you're a Muslim. Take care, and keep it mind my comments were not personal to you or anyone else!
I think you are deliberately moving the goalposts here. How are you going to accuse me of initiating fitna among the Muslims? What fitna have I caused? Is it a lie that there are many so-called sheikhs who don't hold enough credentials to be considered one? Also tell me how I'm committing the same mistake Shibli made? Our disagreement is based on when a person can be considered a sheikh and when they can't. There are plenty of these frauds who pose as scholars when they're infact nothing more than glorified malcamed teachers.

It is not my place to seek Shibli and ask for an apology. He spoke in front of the masses and lied so the burden is on him. He, and others like him should fear Allah and apologise for their lies.

You're trying to make me look like the bad guy by pitting me against all Somali sheikhs. Yes, they teach our youth the qur'an and etc. But the miskeen malcamed teachers are not the ones I've got a problem with and you know it. I really don't understand why you want us to stop criticising the fraudsters.
I would encourage the ignorant Muslims to look up the people they take their deen from and my comments should inspire them to do so. And if a person is indeed a Mu'min, then why should a few posts on an online forum make them leave their deen? Has it occurred to you that a lot of people leave Islam because they take their knowledge from fraudsters?

Come on bruv, you were quite clearly addressing @Duchess and I. Don't even try to deny that because your comment was in protest of what we had said just before that. You mentioned feminism out of the blue, why didn't you do that in your previous replies if you were truly addressing the topic? You are just arguing with me for the sake of it man, give it a rest.
 
I've already said what I could have said, and it seems we're in a circus where you're just repeating the same old tirade that you have been putting here. I have nothing to add in my previous note. You want to continuously attack the ulema and feel good about it, go ahead and do so. I would only repeat sir or madam, you're dead wrong here. Your approach is wrong. You have no facts on your side, and the comment of one sheikh does not reflect on all Somali sheikhs and the magnificent work that they are doing for our community and Muslims in general for the sake of Allah. Imagine where the Somalis would have been without these ulema. Alhamdulillaah, we're not in the state of darkness.
 

Zuleikha

Ha igu daalinee dantaada raac
Not all the somali sheikhs are the same, we have respectful scholars such as sheikh mustafa sheikh ismail, most of his maxadaro is about science and Islam, education and Islam.

Then we have the likes of sheikh saeed Raage who consistently talks about how somali women dresses and who they marries when he himself married to a Italian convert.
 
S

Shamis

Guest
I still can't forget how the mayor of Mogadishu prioritised women's beach wear over Al Kabaab. Bombs were further down the list to wearing jeans on the beach and his language was pretty graphic but no-one shamed him for it! We need to wave goodbye to our African tradition of taking every elder seriously.
 
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