The Say Wallahi Podcast [Season 1 Episode 1 'Origins of the Nomad']

Discussion in 'Culture & History' started by TheSayWallahiPodcast, Oct 8, 2018.

  1. James Dahl

    James Dahl

    Joined:
    May 26, 2017
    Messages:
    436
    Ratings:
    +281
    The
    The northern cities (well, city) were founded by Somali clans of the inland as trade entrepots to trade incense and ebony and some other items.

    A lot of texts interpret Galla or Gall in Somali history to be equivalent of Oromo people, but this is not correct, Galla in historical context refers to any non-Muslim, especially Waaqists.

    Hawiye were not pushed to the coast they conquered the coast, they took Mogadishu by capturing the Sultan of Mogadishu, Mohamed Muzaffar, by tricking him into leaving the city walls, and captured the rest of the coast from the Ajuuraan by war.

    Many Somali clans have become highly urbanized and integrated historically into the social fabric of the coastal cities such as the Moorshe lineage of Ajuuraan and a branch of Murusade, including the original population of Mogadishu prior to the arrival of Arabs.
     
  2. Shanshiyo1234

    Shanshiyo1234

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2017
    Messages:
    1,087
    Ratings:
    +539
    I never said we’re not foreigners!
     
  3. James Dahl

    James Dahl

    Joined:
    May 26, 2017
    Messages:
    436
    Ratings:
    +281
  4. EDsomali

    EDsomali

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2018
    Messages:
    460
    Ratings:
    +453

    So the northern cities were founded by Somalis ?

    What explains the plentiful amount of south Arabian texts found in the north compared to the south ?

    We're these written by Somalis since they were inland or Yemeni migrants?
     
  5. James Dahl

    James Dahl

    Joined:
    May 26, 2017
    Messages:
    436
    Ratings:
    +281
    The South Arabian texts are from merchants, who made up most of the population of the northern trade ports (which were not cities, they were entrepots, small outposts next to warehouses, they existed purely for goods exchange). Somali people were not urban until recently, the Periplus of the Erythraean Sea for instance discusses the three major trade ports on the northern coast, which were controlled by inland Somali clans (which the Periplus states) but the inland tribes would come to the coast to trade but their livelihoods were inland with their herds. Zeila or Awal, and to a lesser extent Berbera and Xiis, are the descendants of these three trade ports. Zeila eventually attracted a permanent population of Yemeni and Hijazi Arabs and Jews, and grew to a large size prior to being destroyed by the Portuguese, whereas Berbera attracted a smaller population and never really grew out of being a small town and Xiis remained small and never attracted an urban population.

    In terms of the regional population, overwhelmingly Somali like 99%, with a tiny Arab and Jewish population, but that tiny Arab and Jewish population was all crammed into Zeila with a small section at Berbera, and Somali people were not historically urban and did not like cities so those cities were majority Arab until the 20th century. Arab though you would have to put in quotation marks as the urban Zeila, Mogadishu and etc populations freely intermarried with their Somali patrons and probably didn't look all that different from their neighbours after a few hundred years. The Awal part of Habar Awal for instance, Zulaika the mother of Habar Awal was an Arab woman from Zeila, Awal is the Somali word for Zeila.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  6. EDsomali

    EDsomali

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2018
    Messages:
    460
    Ratings:
    +453
    Last question.

    The old Somali government said that Somalis had a written script that existed pre Islam and gave locations.

    http://dspace-roma3.caspur.it/bitst...eat landmark in our revolutionary history.pdf

    Is there any truth to this or is it propoganda ?
     
  7. James Dahl

    James Dahl

    Joined:
    May 26, 2017
    Messages:
    436
    Ratings:
    +281
    Yes however not how people think.

    Yusuf al-Kownayn developed a system for writing Somali with Arabic letters in the 13th century, however this was primarily used for transcribing Somali words and non-Arabic names into Arabic texts, and literate Somalis wrote in Arabic, as Somali was not a written language for the most part.

    This is a common story in history. Until the 18th century in Europe, despite alphabets for most European languages having been developed in the 13th century, almost all literature and correspondence was written in Latin. The only exception to this being plays and songs such as Shakespeare or Chaucer's works which were meant to be performed in English and so were written in English. Non-Latin languages were not considered literary languages, in that the rules for writing the language were not very well defined and authors of the era preferred Latin which had an established system of rules and structure, and also was commonly understood whereas Europe had hundreds of dialects and there was no system for proper spelling of non-Latin languages.

    The Somali language until the 20th century was much the same, there had been a system developed in the 13th century (same as European languages) but there was no authority to regulate spelling, usage or structure of written Somali so authors wrote in Arabic, where all those rules and systems did exist plus all literate Somalis understood Arabic but may not have understood the author's dialect of Somali, and their Arab readers certainly wouldn't have been able to.

    What really kickstarted European non-Latin literature and also Somali literature was nationalism, in that there was a nationalist desire to establish their spoken language as a literary language, a need that had not really existed before the nationalist era (language was just what you spoke and how you communicated, identity was much more linked to religion in the old days and Arabic or Latin brought people closer to their religion, so was actually preferable to their mother tongue)
     
  8. Apollo

    Apollo Useful idiot Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2015
    Messages:
    13,347
    Ratings:
    +18,731
    Somalis have nothing to do with Arabians.

    The only thing they have in common is proto-Afro-Asiatic ancestry from the northern Nile area.
     
  9. James Dahl

    James Dahl

    Joined:
    May 26, 2017
    Messages:
    436
    Ratings:
    +281
    To extend on the linked document, the ancient inscriptions mentioned are South Arabian inscriptions, however Somali nationalists have resisted adopting a derived South Arabian script because the resulting script would be very similar to Ge'ez, and that was not desirable from a nationalist standpoint. Ethiopian nationalists have actually developed a system for writing Somali in Ge'ez, but it is not supported by Somalis even inside Ethiopia.

    The two scripts Somalis had used in the past, a South Arabian script and an Arabic script, were both not desirable because the nationalist project sought to define Somalia outside of Ethiopia and the Arab states as a separate entity entirely with its own history and identity. This is why there was an urge to create an entirely new script, from scratch and why Somali linguists created 3 scripts, Kaddare, Borama and Osmanya scripts.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  10. James Dahl

    James Dahl

    Joined:
    May 26, 2017
    Messages:
    436
    Ratings:
    +281
    ...and thousands of years of being very close neighbours with thriving trade relations?
     
  11. Cumar

    Cumar Ilaahay Gargaaryeey Gabiley Qurux Badanaa

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2018
    Messages:
    4,940
    Ratings:
    +6,842
    I know you are talking about the father Awal (Abdulrahaman ibn Isaaq) but I heard his son Subeer Awal mother is Dhulbahante. He is buried in Jiidali which is their territory.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018 at 8:51 PM
    • Informative Informative x 1
  12. TheSayWallahiPodcast

    TheSayWallahiPodcast

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2018
    Messages:
    43
    Ratings:
    +35
    They say never forget your roots. Mashallah SomaliSpot has been a huge supporter of this new podcast and accounts for 10-15% of the views on YouTube alone. With all of that being said Hamdullah we were able to create a subreddit thanks again to a community member. I invite anyone and everyone to please continue the love and support by joining us there. We can compare notes and fact check one another on history inshallah. Bye for now see you soon

    https://www.reddit.com/r/SayWallahi/?st=JN84Y6MC&sh=a6e257d6
     
    • Like Like x 1
Verification:
Draft saved Draft deleted
Loading...

Share This Page