The First Mention of Somali

[Grant]

This is with reference to the discussion of the Periplus and the "far-side" Somali ports. I am posting this separately as I know the perspective is controversial and I don't want to mess with the Periplus thread:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalis

The first mention of "Somali".

"An Ancient Chinese document from the 9th century CE referred to the northern Somalia coast — which was then part of a broader region in Northeast Africa known as Barbara, in reference to the area's Berber (Hamitic) inhabitants[31] — as Po-pa-li.[32][33] The first clear written reference of the sobriquet Somali, however, dates back to the 15th century. During the wars between the Sultanate of Ifat based at Zeila and the Solomonic Dynasty, the Abyssinian emperor had one of his court officials compose a hymn celebrating a military victory over the Sultan of Ifat's eponymous troops.[34] Simur was also an ancient Harari alias for the Somali people.[35]"

Ahmed Gurey was also 15th century. The northern Samaale clans came out of the Ogaden and formed in the 12th-13th centuries. The Harla called them "Simur".They fought for Gurey and they fought for Ifat when that sultanate formed later According to the Yibir and Midgan, the Gaboye controlled the North until this time, a position supported by the legends of Aw Barkhadle. The pastoralist early Samaales would not have been permanently settled anywhere. The 9th century Belitung ship, which did trade with Indonesia and probably China, was from Oman. Zeyla in the Periplus (Written some time in the first to third century AD.) was using rafts for local trade. Even at the time of the Periplus the merchants on Socotra were Arab, Indian and Greek, genomes that find a place in modern Somali DNA, so this mix must have begun in the coastal Somali settlements, indicating a foreign presence from at least this period.

There are more "Barbara" than just the Samaales. At the beginning of the Common Era the proto-Samaales were just crossing the Kenyan border. The Periplus is interesting Somali history, but Samaales are not the people of the far side ports. Folks with that name were not locals and didn't come until many centuries later.

Check the Harla and Simur. Read Herbert Lewis on the Samaale migrations.

 

[Keo]

Sultanate of Ifat where not Somali. This is probably why the T1 haplogroup is found in North West of Somalia which is not indigenous to Africa at all.

 

[Grant]

Sultanate of Ifat where not Somali. This is probably why the T1 haplogroup is found in North West of Somalia which is not indigenous to Africa at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultanate_of_Ifat

The Walashmas claimed to be Hashimite Arabs.

..." according to Nehemia Levtzion and Randall Pouwels....... nomadic groups such as Afars, Somalis and Werjih people whom were most likely Muslims by thirteenth century, and some ..... groups (of ) the sedentary agriculturalist Semitic-speaking people such as the no-longer-extant Harala and the Harari were the population of the leading principality of Ifat.[36][9] Other scholars, based on Al Umari's account stating the inhabitants of Ifat spoke Abyssinian, suggest that the inhabitants spoke Ethiopian Semitic languages likely Amharic.[37][2"

Couldn't prove it by me. I thought T was from the area of Iran. How do you make that connection?

 

[MARAQ DIGAAG]

This is with reference to the discussion of the Periplus and the "far-side" Somali ports. I am posting this separately as I know the perspective is controversial and I don't want to mess with the Periplus thread:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalis

The first mention of "Somali".

"An Ancient Chinese document from the 9th century CE referred to the northern Somalia coast — which was then part of a broader region in Northeast Africa known as Barbara, in reference to the area's Berber (Hamitic) inhabitants[31] — as Po-pa-li.[32][33] The first clear written reference of the sobriquet Somali, however, dates back to the 15th century. During the wars between the Sultanate of Ifat based at Zeila and the Solomonic Dynasty, the Abyssinian emperor had one of his court officials compose a hymn celebrating a military victory over the Sultan of Ifat's eponymous troops.[34] Simur was also an ancient Harari alias for the Somali people.[35]"

Ahmed Gurey was also 15th century. The northern Samaale clans came out of the Ogaden and formed in the 12th-13th centuries. The Harla called them "Simur".They fought for Gurey and they fought for Ifat when that sultanate formed later According to the Yibir and Midgan, the Gaboye controlled the North until this time, a position supported by the legends of Aw Barkhadle. The pastoralist early Samaales would not have been permanently settled anywhere. The 9th century Belitung ship, which did trade with Indonesia and probably China, was from Oman. Zeyla in the Periplus (Written some time in the first to third century AD.) was using rafts for local trade. Even at the time of the Periplus the merchants on Socotra were Arab, Indian and Greek, genomes that find a place in modern Somali DNA, so this mix must have begun in the coastal Somali settlements, indicating a foreign presence from at least this period.

There are more "Barbara" than just the Samaales. At the beginning of the Common Era the proto-Samaales were just crossing the Kenyan border. The Periplus is interesting Somali history, but Samaales are not the people of the far side ports. Folks with that name were not locals and didn't come until many centuries later.

Check the Harla and Simur. Read Herbert Lewis on the Samaale migrations.

So who were the people on the "far side ports "? Who inhabited all of modern somaliland and punt land before your so-called "samaale " migration com Southern Ethiopia ?lets go fellow !

 

[MARAQ DIGAAG]

Sultanate of Ifat where not Somali. This is probably why the T1 haplogroup is found in North West of Somalia which is not indigenous to Africa at all.

Suugo science !

 

[Grant]

So who were the people on the "far side ports "? Who inhabited all of modern somaliland and punt land before your so-called "samaale " migration com Southern Ethiopia ?lets go fellow !

The Yibir were in the area around Hargeysa. This is part of a larger study which suggests the Yibir were a Beta Israel group sent by Axum to control the Bab el Mandeb:

https://www.geneticliteracyproject....ews-in-somalia-tracing-remnants-of-the-yibir/

"The possibility that the Yibir community has branched out of a Beta Israel population may distantly be inferred from a medieval source that refers to a Habash queen (from what is today Ethiopia) as sending a zebra as a gift to the king of Yemen in the tenth century. This queen was no other than Judith, the ruler of the Beta Israel kingdom that sprang probably in eastern Sudan and subjugated Aksum in the ninth century. Though not precisely known by years, Judith’s reign fell between the late ninth century and early tenth century and is thought to have lasted for forty years.

Since zebras are most associated with the southern zone of the African Horn, i.e. the southern regions of Ethiopia and the plains of Somalia, it may be suggestible that Queen Judith has, at some point during her reign, expanded her kingdom’s control southward beyond the Ethiopian Highlands and into Somalia.

Could the Yibir have descended out of a Beta Israel population that migrated to Somalia during the time of Queen Judith? Is it possible that the Yibir’s ancestors were sent by the queen to control Somalia’s strategic Bab-el-Mandeb area linking the Indian Ocean and the Red Sea?"

According to the Midgan, the kingdom of Boonta would have covered most of the rest of the North. These were the Bon people:

http://www.madhibaan.org/faq/faq-history.htm

According to both, they were enslaved by the Samaales in the 12th-13th centuries.

There would also have been ajnabi and hangers-on living in coastal settlements. There is no indication of a centralized power in this period. Zoskales of Axum and Charibael of Himyar are named in the Periplus as controlling most of the territory, but no leader of a far-side port is named. Since each port was independant and apparently small, there can't have been a lot of hierarchy or organization. Since most of the trade goods were not local, there was probably only limited contact between the coastal trade and the interior. These ports existed to serve the silk road and world trade and they died when that road moved. There has never been a lot to export from the far-side coast.

 

[MARAQ DIGAAG]

We wuz Israelites yo .I never thought I would see an 80 year old Caucasian fellow write such nonsense .

 

[--Ajakis Lax Max--]

We wuz Israelites yo .I never thought I would see an 80 year old Caucasian fellow write such nonsense .

i wonder if stupid mod will delete your comment too for disagreeing with such said nonsense.

 

[Grant]

Chicken Soup,

I like your nik. I am not 80 yet, please.

Translate Yibir and check this out:

https://www.geneticliteracyproject....ews-in-somalia-tracing-remnants-of-the-yibir/

"In 2000, New York Times journalist Ian Fisher conducted a breakthrough interview with the Yibir community leader Sultan Ahmed Jama. The Sultan was not secretive about his Hebraic heritage and indicated that the prejudice his people experience in Somalia essentially goes back to their Israelite heritage. He also pointed out that members of the community –particularly the youth– are often ashamed of their Yibir identity as a low caste. Accordingly, they often identify with other clans of higher castes.

Yibir folklore suggests that the community’s ancestors converted from Judaism to Islam in the thirteenth century. Since scholars believe that Sharif Yusuf lived in the early thirteenth century, the events of the traditional narrative, involving the Sharif and the Yibir leader Mohamed Hanif, would accordingly date to the same century.

And although the name Mohamed Hanif is evidently Muslim, it is perhaps possible that the Yibir did not entirely abandon Judaism until Sharif Yusuf subjugated them. In any case, and as indicated, Somali traditions claim that Mohamed Hanif was not a true Muslim and seem to suggest that he was of a different religion.

Traditionally, the Yibir claim that their Jewish ancestors arrived in Somalia prior to the formation of the major noble Samaale clans, i.e. Darood, Dir, Hawiye and Isaaq. While Samaale clans commonly trace their paternal lineages to ninth century Arabian ancestors, some scholars have suggested that the Darood and Isaaq were only founded in the thirteenth century. If this is true, then the Yibir are also likely to be older than the two Samaale clans. That is because the Yibir were, presumably, already established as a powerful group in Somalia by the time of Mohamed Hanif in the thirteenth century.

Furthermore, the pagan rites noted earlier in the Yibir’s spiritual practices, in addition to the identification of the group’s historic leader Mohamed Hanif with paganism, may suggest that the community’s presence in Somalia predates the spread of Islam and possibly the formation of Samaale clans in the thirteenth century.

Although the question as to how Judaism has arrived to Somalia has not been previously researched, certain Yibir cultural features seem to indicate that the community has branched out of an older Beta Israel–Ethiopian Jewish population. (As reported in Jon Entine’s Abraham’s Children, genetic evidence has confirmed that the formation of the Beta Israel goes back approximately to the fourth or fifth century). Both groups, the Beta Israel and Yibir, are perceived as outcasts by their host populations and are associated with magic and superstition. (The Beta Israel are known in Ethiopia as Falasha, meaning exiles or outcasts in ancient Ethiopic. The Beta Israel are also strongly associated in Ethiopian traditions with the Budah, a magical or evil supernatural entity that can inflict curse on the locals).

A third compelling correlation between the Yibir and the Beta Israel involves blacksmithery; it seems hardly coincidental that both populations are popular in their host countries for being skilled in making and fashioning iron equipment. As I suggested in a former article, blacksmithery seems to have entered the culture of the Beta Israel from the ancient civilization of Kush, in what is today Northern Sudan."

Hardly nonsense. Note the Cushitic connection and read the rest of the paper..

 

[Keo]

Suugo science !

But it's the truth.

 

[TheSayid]

T probably back migrated into africa in ancient times, it can be found in south cushites like iraqw so i doubt its due to some kind of recent kingdoms

 

[Vanguard]

Does anybody actually believe that Sheikh Darood existed?

 

[Garad]

We wuz Israelites yo .I never thought I would see an 80 year old Caucasian fellow write such nonsense .

He does this type of stuff all the time.....

This is with reference to the discussion of the Periplus and the "far-side" Somali ports. I am posting this separately as I know the perspective is controversial and I don't want to mess with the Periplus thread:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalis

The first mention of "Somali".

"An Ancient Chinese document from the 9th century CE referred to the northern Somalia coast — which was then part of a broader region in Northeast Africa known as Barbara, in reference to the area's Berber (Hamitic) inhabitants[31] — as Po-pa-li.[32][33] The first clear written reference of the sobriquet Somali, however, dates back to the 15th century. During the wars between the Sultanate of Ifat based at Zeila and the Solomonic Dynasty, the Abyssinian emperor had one of his court officials compose a hymn celebrating a military victory over the Sultan of Ifat's eponymous troops.[34] Simur was also an ancient Harari alias for the Somali people.[35]"

Ahmed Gurey was also 15th century. The northern Samaale clans came out of the Ogaden and formed in the 12th-13th centuries. The Harla called them "Simur".They fought for Gurey and they fought for Ifat when that sultanate formed later According to the Yibir and Midgan, the Gaboye controlled the North until this time, a position supported by the legends of Aw Barkhadle. The pastoralist early Samaales would not have been permanently settled anywhere. The 9th century Belitung ship, which did trade with Indonesia and probably China, was from Oman. Zeyla in the Periplus (Written some time in the first to third century AD.) was using rafts for local trade. Even at the time of the Periplus the merchants on Socotra were Arab, Indian and Greek, genomes that find a place in modern Somali DNA, so this mix must have begun in the coastal Somali settlements, indicating a foreign presence from at least this period.

There are more "Barbara" than just the Samaales. At the beginning of the Common Era the proto-Samaales were just crossing the Kenyan border. The Periplus is interesting Somali history, but Samaales are not the people of the far side ports. Folks with that name were not locals and didn't come until many centuries later.

Check the Harla and Simur. Read Herbert Lewis on the Samaale migrations.

How does the later use of the term "Somali" by non-Somalis disprove that Somalis inhabited the northern part of the country? It has been well established that Somalis have been called "Berbers" prior to the use of the term "Somali". It's a clear continuation of the same term used the describe the people of northern Somalia in the first centuries by the Periplus. As I stated in a previous reply, the modern Berbers of North Africa are not the same as those of the ancient Horn of Africa. During this period, the former were referred to as "Libyans". Although Grant seem to recognize that Somalis have historically been called "Berbers", why is is it as such? Surely, if they inhabited southern Somalia during the 1st century, then they would still be referred to as "Azanians". However, this is not the case.

Even though you insist that they were not, these "far-side ports" were indigenous settlements as clearly stated in the Periplus. So were the Berber (i.e Somali) traders whom not only traded with the Arabs, but also the Egyptians and Romans. The lack of centralization and independence of each port clearly characterize how Somalis political society has been for the most part.
_______
Source:
https://books.google.com/books?id=D...laad al-Berber (land of the Berbers)"&f=false
https://books.google.com/books?id=5...were+called+Libyans+from+the+Greek+reference"
http://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/ancient/periplus.asp
https://books.google.com/books?id=2...s Somalis and other coastal Cushites"&f=false
https://books.google.com/books?id=2...ved=0ahUKEwj7vbmC0JHTAhXEOiYKHZe3D2QQ6AEIHDAA

The Yibir were in the area around Hargeysa. This is part of a larger study which suggests the Yibir were a Beta Israel group sent by Axum to control the Bab el Mandeb:

https://www.geneticliteracyproject....ews-in-somalia-tracing-remnants-of-the-yibir/

"The possibility that the Yibir community has branched out of a Beta Israel population may distantly be inferred from a medieval source that refers to a Habash queen (from what is today Ethiopia) as sending a zebra as a gift to the king of Yemen in the tenth century. This queen was no other than Judith, the ruler of the Beta Israel kingdom that sprang probably in eastern Sudan and subjugated Aksum in the ninth century. Though not precisely known by years, Judith’s reign fell between the late ninth century and early tenth century and is thought to have lasted for forty years.

Since zebras are most associated with the southern zone of the African Horn, i.e. the southern regions of Ethiopia and the plains of Somalia, it may be suggestible that Queen Judith has, at some point during her reign, expanded her kingdom’s control southward beyond the Ethiopian Highlands and into Somalia.

Could the Yibir have descended out of a Beta Israel population that migrated to Somalia during the time of Queen Judith? Is it possible that the Yibir’s ancestors were sent by the queen to control Somalia’s strategic Bab-el-Mandeb area linking the Indian Ocean and the Red Sea?"

According to the Midgan, the kingdom of Boonta would have covered most of the rest of the North. These were the Bon people:

http://www.madhibaan.org/faq/faq-history.htm

According to both, they were enslaved by the Samaales in the 12th-13th centuries.

There would also have been ajnabi and hangers-on living in coastal settlements. There is no indication of a centralized power in this period. Zoskales of Axum and Charibael of Himyar are named in the Periplus as controlling most of the territory, but no leader of a far-side port is named. Since each port was independant and apparently small, there can't have been a lot of hierarchy or organization. Since most of the trade goods were not local, there was probably only limited contact between the coastal trade and the interior. These ports existed to serve the silk road and world trade and they died when that road moved. There has never been a lot to export from the far-side coast.

The Yibir are ethnic Somalis. They poses no cultural or physical traits to indict otherwise. The story Mohammad Hanif and Aw Barkhalde isn't inreference to an invasion, but rather Islam triumphed over pre-Islamic Somalia. Hence why they are still referred to as "Yibirs" and claim "decent" from Mohammad Hanif, in reference to the pre-Islamic traditions of Somalis. However, calling the Yibir "Somalis" isn't a recent phenomenon since they are listed as amongst the numerous Somali groups in the Futuh al Habesha, a document from the 16th century discussing the Conquest of Abyssinia.
_______
Source:
http://reliefweb.int/report/somalia/study-minorities-somalia
https://books.google.com/books?id=Y...involume&q="The+somali+tribes+called+Yibberi"

 

[Prince Abubu]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultanate_of_Ifat

The Walashmas claimed to be Hashimite Arabs.

..." according to Nehemia Levtzion and Randall Pouwels....... nomadic groups such as Afars, Somalis and Werjih people whom were most likely Muslims by thirteenth century, and some ..... groups (of ) the sedentary agriculturalist Semitic-speaking people such as the no-longer-extant Harala and the Harari were the population of the leading principality of Ifat.[36][9] Other scholars, based on Al Umari's account stating the inhabitants of Ifat spoke Abyssinian, suggest that the inhabitants spoke Ethiopian Semitic languages likely Amharic.[37][2"

Couldn't prove it by me. I thought T was from the area of Iran. How do you make that connection?

The Moroccan royal family also claim descent from the Prophet but they have haplogroup E1b1b. Many different people claim to be ahlu bayt, so far the only people to actually genetically show affinity are the Jordanian royals.

 

[Grant]

He does this type of stuff all the time.....

How does the later use of the term "Somali" by non-Somalis disprove that Somalis inhabited the northern part of the country? It has been well established that Somalis have been called "Berbers" prior to the use of the term "Somali". It's a clear continuation of the same term used the describe the people of northern Somalia in the first centuries by the Periplus. As I stated in a previous reply, the modern Berbers of North Africa are not the same as those of the ancient Horn of Africa. During this period, the former were referred to as "Libyans". Although Grant seem to recognize that Somalis have historically been called "Berbers", why is is it as such? Surely, if they inhabited southern Somalia during the 1st century, then they would still be referred to as "Azanians". However, this is not the case.

Even though you insist that they were not, these "far-side ports" were indigenous settlements as clearly stated in the Periplus. So were the Berber (i.e Somali) traders whom not only traded with the Arabs, but also the Egyptians and Romans. The lack of centralization and independence of each port clearly characterize how Somalis political society has been for the most part.
_______
Source:
https://books.google.com/books?id=DPwOsOcNy5YC&pg=PA3&dq=berbers+somalis+medieval+arabs+bilaAd&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi8_Ze1zYHTAhUTySYKHc8lD9UQ6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q="The Arabs, particularly the Yemenis and Omanis, traded with Somalia before the Islamic era and knew Somalia as the bilaad al-Berber (land of the Berbers)"&f=false
https://books.google.com/books?id=5Og_AAAAYAAJ&dq=berbers+cALLED+"LIBYANS"&focus=searchwithinvolume&q="+In+ancient+times+the+Berbers+were+called+Libyans+from+the+Greek+reference"
http://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/ancient/periplus.asp
https://books.google.com/books?id=2Nu918tYMB8C&pg=PA13&dq="the+author+of+the+periplus+wrote+that+the+barbaroi+were+without+a+central+government,"&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiCxKT9yZHTAhXBNiYKHacNA7UQ6AEIGjAA#v=onepage&q="with each port city an independent political entity; they were, he wrote, an unruly people. From that description, it is certain that the author was writing about the ancestors of today's Somalis and other coastal Cushites"&f=false
https://books.google.com/books?id=2Nu918tYMB8C&pg=PA13&dq="This+document+indicates+that+the+Barbaroi,+meaning+the+inhabitants+of+northern+Somali+coasts,+were+trading+with+the+inhabitants+of+Arabia+before+Islam;+they+were+also+trading+with+Egypt,+then+under+the+Romans."&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj7vbmC0JHTAhXEOiYKHZe3D2QQ6AEIHDAA

The Yibir are ethnic Somalis. They poses no cultural or physical traits to indict otherwise. The story Mohammad Hanif and Aw Barkhalde isn't inreference to an invasion, but rather Islam triumphed over pre-Islamic Somalia. Hence why they are still referred to as "Yibirs" and claim "decent" from Mohammad Hanif, in reference to the pre-Islamic traditions of Somalis. However, calling the Yibir "Somalis" isn't a recent phenomenon since they are listed as amongst the numerous Somali groups in the Futuh al Habesha, a document from the 16th century discussing the Conquest of Abyssinia.
_______
Source:
http://reliefweb.int/report/somalia/study-minorities-somalia
https://books.google.com/books?id=YgIwAQAAIAAJ&dq=yibir+somali+abyssinia&focus=searchwithinvolume&q="The+somali+tribes+called+Yibberi"

Garaad,

The Periplus does not state the settlements were indigenous. It states they were there. The Futuh is 16th century. If the Yibir were enslaved and converted early in the 13th century, as the Yibir and Midgan both say, they would have been an established part of the Muslims by that time. As Fallasha, they would have had a connection to the Cushites of Meroe, which would connect to the Samaales via the southern route.

The second item in the Periplus:

2. "On the right-hand coast next below Berenice is the country of the Berbers [or Barbaroi, “foreigners”: traditionally designating any non-Greek speaker]. Along the shore are the Fish-Eaters, living in scattered caves in the narrow valleys. Further inland are the Berbers, and beyond them the Wild-flesh-Eaters and Calf-Eaters [Casson: “shoot-eaters”, from Greek mosxophagoi: translatable as either “calf” or “shoot, twig”], each tribe governed by its chief; and behind them, further inland, in the country toward the west, there lies a city called Meroe."

This describes the Sudan and the Beja country. Note the different layers of settlement with the Kushitic city of Meroe far inland. The Fish-Eaters at the coast are clearly different from the pastoralist Berbers, who are also different from what sound like hunting peoples. Pastoralists don't settle anywhere permanently, and certainly not at the coast. The last time I checked, Samaales were also not big fans of eating fish, so there are cultural issues that don't go away. In this respect, why would the far-side coast be any different from the near-side coast?

 

[Garad]

The passage you quoted form the Periplus is discussing the Sudanese coast. The Fish-Eaters were a separate group that inhabited that portion, hence why there's no reference to them on the northern Somali seaboard. Even then, many Somalis do it fish, but it is only a minority.

Regarding the far-side coast, the Periplus makes it clear that these ports were native settlements, as were its inhabitants:

"After about four thousand stadia, for those sailing eastward along the same coast, there are other Berber market-towns, known as the 'far-side' ports: [...] the Berbers who live in the place are very unruly [...] This country is not subject to a King, but each market-town is ruled by its separate chief".​

There are several differences between the near-side coast and the Somali coast, such as the latter being independent of Askum. In addition, many Somali pastoralists do in fact form settled communities; this can clearly be seen with the Rahanweyn clan (as well as others, but in varying degrees) who also supplement themselves with agriculture. Those that don't form permanent settlements were the semi-nomadic and nomadic Somalis. Even then, these groups would still flock took to the markets during the trading season. Chief among them being Berbera with its population swelling to 30,000 during the 1800’s.
_____
Source:
http://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/ancient/periplus.asp
https://books.google.com/books?id=2...00 inhabitants in the trading season"&f=false

The unruliness and political independence of these Berber communities on the northern coast clearly characterizes Somalis. This is supported by Arab traders who understood that the Somalis were the Berbers of the antiquity:

“The Arabs, particularly the Yemenis and Omanis, traded with Somalia before the Islamic era and knew Somalia as the bilaad al-Berber (land of the Berbers)"​

______
Source:
https://books.google.com/books?id=D...laad al-Berber (land of the Berbers)"&f=false
https://books.google.com/books?id=2...s Somalis and other coastal Cushites"&f=false
http://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/ancient/periplus.asp

The article you recently provided doesn't mention “slavery” against the Yibir. The only thing that does is that hogwash site form earlier. It states that the Madhibaan continued to be "slaves" despite converting to Islam. Anyone familiar with Islam would be aware that such an act is haram. If both communities weren't ethnic Somalis, then they should be listed as such by the Futuh al-Habesa, right? However, this is not the case:

“The imam sent Ali to one of the Somali tribes called Yibberi"​

Yiber, along with other occupational clans, poses no cultural or physical traits to indicate that they are not Somalis. What separates them from other Somalis is their marginalized economic occupations. Its clear that the statements made regarding "slavery" are unfounded claim since Somalis are not known for enslaving one another.
_____
Source:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...luJWfd3227f8ExN4w&sig2=4VpOcbdZIf_ZtDVmndFPPQ
https://books.google.com/books?id=Y...i+to+one+of+The+somali+tribes+called+Yibberi"
www.geneticliteracyproject.org/2013/09/03/ethiopian-jews-in-somalia-tracing-remnants-of-the-yibir/

 

[Garad]

The Moroccan royal family also claim descent from the Prophet but they have haplogroup E1b1b. Many different people claim to be ahlu bayt, so far the only people to actually genetically show affinity are the Jordanian royals.

Indeed. The Walshama Dynasty was in fact a native Somali dynasty and claimed descent from Aw Barkhadle. Their Arabized genealogy is no different from most Somalis.
_______
Sources:
http://dspace-roma3.caspur.it/bitstream/2307/1026/5/34_M. A. RIRASH - Effects of sixteenth century upheavals on the history of the horn.pdf
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...+Aqiil+Abuu+Taalib,+a+cousin+of+the+Prophet."

 

[Garad]

This is in response to another thread that Grant was derailing. I attached a link below for those interested.
________
Source:
http://www.somalispot.com/threads/y...gaxkureh-dhambalin-iyo-dhagaxnabigalay.21240/

Garaad,
Please go back and read the Periplus. The north coast was the Cape of Spices, the Cinnamon Coast, with five differnet varieties, and cloves. They traded in copper sheet and imported cloaks, iron and iron tools. They exported ...."ivory, and tortoise-shell and rhinoceros-horn"....".spices, a little ivory, tortoise-shell, and a very little myrrh, but better than the rest.".... a little frankincense (that known as “far-side”), the harder cinnamon, duaca, Indian copal and macir, which are imported into Arabia; and slaves, but rarely"...."the incense called mocrotu cinnamon, (and its different varieties, gizir, asypha, arebo, magla, and moto) and frankincense."

As you say, the cinnamon trade required larger than normal ships.. It was a port secret that the spices, which were the principle trade, were not local.

It doesn't sound like you read the link to the Yibir, so let's try this again:

https://www.geneticliteracyproject....ews-in-somalia-tracing-remnants-of-the-yibir/

I am well aware where the cinnamon originated from. The Berbers (i.e Somalis) served as middlemen for the Romans/Greeks and Indians. This due to Somalis and Arabs barring Indian traders from crossing the Bab-el-Mandeb. Anyways, the principle trade of the far-side coast was actually frankincense and myrrh.
_______
Source:
https://books.google.com/books?id=o...r trade were frankincense and myrrh."&f=false
https://books.google.com/books?id=-... trade freely with the Somali coast;"&f=false

 

[Grant]

Garaad,

The principle commodities available for export from Somalia were indeed frankinense and myrrh. But both the spice and incense trades were dominated by Charibael of Himyar, who was the friend of the emperors and the principle direct trader. It was cinnamon and not frankincense that the Cinnamon Coast was known for, and that was not local. The frankincense country was the kingdom of Eleazus, on the Arabian coast, across the Gulf of Aden from the far-side ports. It sounds like the Somali product was often just added to the Himyar cargoes. Also, notice that the merchants of Socotra were not locals:

The Periplus:

27. After Eudaemon Arabia there is a continuous length of coast, and a bay extending two thousand stadia or more, along which there are Nomads and Fish-Eaters living in villages; just beyond the cape projecting from this bay there is another market-town by the shore, Cana [Kanê], of the Kingdom of Eleazus, the Frankincense Country; and facing it there are two desert islands, one called Island of Birds, the other Dome Island, one hundred and twenty stadia from Cana. Inland from this place lies the metropolis Sabbatha, in which the King lives. All the frankincense produced in the country is brought by camels to that place to be stored, and to Cana on rafts held up by inflated skins after the manner of the country, and in boats. And this place has a trade also with the far-side ports, with Barygaza and Scythia and Ommana and the neighboring coast of Persia.

28. There are imported into this place from Egypt a little wheat and wine, as at Muza; clothing in the Arabian style, plain and common and most of it spurious; and copper and tin and coral and storax and other things such as go to Muza; and for the King usually wrought gold and silver plate, also horses, images [Greek andriantes: “male statuary”], and thin clothing of fine quality. And there are exported from this place, native produce, frankincense and aloes, and the rest of the things that enter into the trade of the other ports. The voyage to this place is best made at the same time as that to Muza, or rather earlier.

29. Beyond Cana, the land receding greatly, there follows a very deep bay stretching a great way across, which is called Sachalites; and the Frankincense Country, mountainous and forbidding, wrapped in thick clouds and fog, and yielding frankincense from the trees. These incense-bearing trees are not of great height or thickness; they bear the frankincense sticking in drops on the bark, just as the trees among us in Egypt weep their gum. The frankincense is gathered by the King's slaves and those who are sent to this service for punishment. For these places are very unhealthy, and pestilential even to those sailing along the coast, but almost always fatal to those working there, who also perish often from want of food.

30. On this bay there is a very great promontory facing the east, called Syagrus; on which is a fort for .the defense of the country, and a harbor and storehouse for the frankincense that is collected; and opposite this cape, well out at sea, there is an island, lying between it and the Cape of Spices opposite, but nearer Syagrus: it is called Dioscorida [=modern Socotra], and is very large but desert and marshy, having rivers in it and crocodiles and many snakes and great lizards, of which the flesh is eaten and the fat melted and used instead of olive oil. The island yields no fruit, neither vine nor grain. The inhabitants are few and they live on the coast toward the north, which from this side faces the continent. They are foreigners, a mixture of Arabs and Indians and Greeks, who have emigrated to carry on trade there. The island produces the true sea-tortoise, and the land-tortoise, and the white tortoise which is very numerous and preferred for its large shells; and the mountain-tortoise, which is largest of all and has the thickest shell; of which the worthless' specimens cannot be cut apart on the under-side, because they are even too hard; but those of value are cut apart and the shells made whole into caskets and small plates and cake-dishes and that sort of ware. There is also produced in this island cinnabar, that called Indian, which is collected in drops from the trees.

31. It happens that just as Azania is subject to Charibael and the Chief of Mapharitis, this island is subject to the King of the Frankincense Country. Trade is also carried on there by some people from Muza and by those who chance to call there on the voyage from Damirica [Casson: “Limyrikê”; i.e. Malabar Coast of south India] and Barygaza; they bring in rice and wheat and Indian cloth, and a few female slaves; and they take for their exchange cargoes, a great quantity of tortoise-shell. Now the island is farmed out under the Kings and is garrisoned."

The point of this thread is that there were no Samaales until long after the time of the Periplus. The dating for the formation of the Samaale clans in the 12th-13th centuries is firm. There is no reason whatsoever to think they came from the northern coast. The Periplus was written in the 1st-3rd centuries, so there is no overlap. Even the oldest Samaale abtirsi does not go back more than 800 years.

Since this is my thread, you are the one derailing. Please either learn to read or just stay away.

 

[Young Popeye]

Amda Seyon invaded Ifat in the 14th century and fought Harla. No mention of Simur, so they were probably not in the north until the 15th century. We know Hawiye was confirmed in the south (Merca) by the Arab travellor in the 12th or 13th century. The saamale invaded and assimilated clans in ifat empire much like what the German nomads did to the roman empire.