The Boni, Eyle, etc. are B2a or B2b

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https://drum.lib.umd.edu/handle/1903/11443


Page 122:

"Besides the Boni and Sengwer, all current East African hunter-gatherers share common haplotypes (mtDNA L4, L3a, L0d3 and Y chromosome B2a and B2b), suggesting that the current East African hunter-gatherers might represent remnants of the previous pre-Holocene and early Holocene population in the region. The Boni and the Sengwer appear to have had substantial levels of gene flow from other neighboring populations that appear to have the hunter-gatherer “genetic signature”. In fact, the Orma and Kalenjin populations that neighbor the Boni and the Sengwer, respectively, carry hunter-gatherer haplotypes at moderate frequencies indicating possible “reverse” gene flow."
 
Grant, what motivates you to study all things related to Somalis?

It was clear when I was there that the history I had been taught was wrong, and I had intended to retire there. But let's not derail this thread. My interest in pursuing this particular topic came from Factsdiid's insistence that the Boni were Somali. Dan Stiles also says so, but he didn't have the advantage of DNA data, which this piece has in tremendous depth.

Hoosh,

I have never thought I.M. got much right. Herbert S. is much more my cup of tea.
 
It was clear when I was there that the history I had been taught was wrong, and I had intended to retire there. But let's not derail this thread. My interest in pursuing this particular topic came from Factsdiid's insistence that the Boni were Somali. Dan Stiles also says so, but he didn't have the advantage of DNA data, which this piece has in tremendous depth.

Hoosh,

I have never thought I.M. got much right. Herbert S. is much more my cup of tea.
And what do you hope to achieve? Any real life outcomes?
 
And what do you hope to achieve? Any real life outcomes?

My original goal of retiring in Somalia is now beyond reach, for both political and health reasons, so this is now mostly just an intellectual exercise. However, I have noticed significant shifts in attitude towards Somali history on the forums since I joined in 2005, partly as a result of issues I have raised and papers I have presented. I think that just getting the links out there is helpful. Eventually, somebody is going to read them.

This link is a major paper, which also highlights many of the issues I consider essential to Somali history. I know several people here that would profit from reading it.
 
@Grant
Haplogroup B is now most common among populations native to South East Asia,[3] as well as speakers of the Austronesian languages.

A subclade of B4b (which is sometimes labelled B2) is one of five haplogroups found among the indigenous peoples of the Americas, the others being A, C, D, and X.

Because the migration to the Americas by the ancestors of indigenous Americans is generally believed to have been from northeastern Siberia via Beringia, it is surprising that Haplogroup B and Haplogroup X have not been found in Paleo-Siberian tribes of northeastern Siberia.[4] However, Haplogroup B has been found among Turkic, Mongolic, and Tungusic populations of Siberia, such as Tuvans, Altays, Shors, Khakassians, Yakuts, Buryats, Mongols, Negidals, and Evenks.[5] This haplogroup is also found among populations in China, Indonesia, Iran,[5] Iraq,[6] Japan, Korea, Laos,[7] Madagascar, Malaysia, Melanesia, Micronesia, Mongolia, the Philippines, Polynesia, Taiwan, Thailand, Tibet, and Vietnam.[8][9]

Although haplogroup B in general has been found in many Siberian population samples, the subclade that is phylogenetically closest to American B2, namely B4b1, has been found mainly in populations of southern China and Southeast Asia, especially Filipinos and Austronesian speakers of eastern Indonesia (approx. 8%) and the aborigines of Taiwan and Hainan (approx. 7%).[10][11][12] However, B4b1 has been observed in populations as far north as Turochak and Choya districts in the north of Altai Republic (3/72 = 4.2% Tubalar),[13]Miyazaki and Tokyo, Japan (approx. 3%),[14] South Korea (4/185 = 2.2%),[9] Tuva (1/95 = 1.1% Tuvan),[13] and Hulunbuir (1/149 = 0.7% Barghut).[15]

Doesn't add up.
 
This is an Aweer man, they speak a Cushitic language which retains some click sounds. Boni are probably just assimilated bushmen.

IMG_20150619_181412.jpg
 
This is an Aweer man, they speak a Cushitic language which retains some click sounds. Boni are probably just assimilated bushmen.

IMG_20150619_181412.jpg
There are two types of Boni/Aweer.
1. Those who are on the Kenyan side. 2.those who remain on the Somali side .

They have incorporated vast amounts of the Oromo language into their tongue but their original language was closer to Rendille/Somali etc .

They have also intermingled with the Bajuni as well other groups from the South Cushitic . Obviously , their phenotypes and DNA will have various influences from the Horn .

1589566.jpg

The dude whose pic you posted looks strongly Cushitic . So do the dudes above . The question is : are they cushiticised foragers or Eastern Cushites who became foragers and thus genetically isolated ?

Grant , I will check your study .
 
There are two types of Boni/Aweer.
1. Those who are on the Kenyan side. 2.those who remain on the Somali side .

They have incorporated vast amounts of the Oromo language into their tongue but their original language was closer to Rendille/Somali etc .

They have also intermingled with the Bajuni as well other groups from the South Cushitic . Obviously , their phenotypes and DNA will have various influences from the Horn .

1589566.jpg

The dude whose pic you posted looks strongly Cushitic . So do the dudes above . The question is : are they cushiticised foragers or Eastern Cushites who became foragers and thus genetically isolated ?

Grant , I will check your study .

There is no argument, their language is Cushitic. It's the DNA that isn't. Nearly all the small hunter/gatherer groups that stayed in the north when the bulk of the Khoisan went south have shifted language.
 
@Grant


Doesn't add up.

Duh...

https://haplomaps.com/haplogroup-b2a/

Y-DNA Haplogroup B2a-M109


Haplogroup B2a1a1a1 (M109, M152, P32), previously B2a1a is the most commonly observed subclade of haplogroup B.

In Central Africa, B-M109 Y-DNA has been found in 23% (7/31) of Ngumba males from southern Cameroon, 18% (7/39) of Fali males from northern Cameroon, 5% (1/21) to 31% (4/13) of Uldeme males from northern Cameroon, 10% (3/29) of Ewondo males from southern Cameroon, 7% (1/15) of a mixed sample of speakers of various Chadic languages from northern Cameroon, 6% (1/18) of a mixed sample of speakers of various Adamawa languages from northern Cameroon, 6% (2/33) of Bakola males from southern Cameroon, 4% (1/28) of Mandara males from northern Cameroon, and 3% (1/31) to 5% (1/20) of Biaka males from Central African Republic.

In East Africa, haplogroup B2a1a1a1 Y-DNA has been found in 11% (1/9) of a small sample of Iraqw males from Tanzania, 11% (1/9) of a small sample of Luo males from Kenya, 8% (2/26) of Massai males from Kenya, and 4.5% (4/88) of a sample of Ethiopians.

In Southern Africa, B-M109 Y-DNA has been found in 18% (5/28) of Sotho–Tswana males from South Africa, 14% (4/29) of Zulu males from South Africa, 13% (7/53) of an ethnically mixed sample of non-Khoisan Southern Africans, 10% (5/49) of Shona males from Zimbabwe, and 5% (4/80) of Xhosa males from South Africa.

In North Africa, haplogroup B2a1a1a1 Y-DNA has been found in 12.5% (5/40) of Sudanese and 2% (2/92) of Egyptians.

In Eurasia, B2a1a1a1 (B-M109) has been found in 3% (3/117) of a sample of Iranians from southern Iran and 2% (2/88) of a sample from Pakistan and India.

SOURCE: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_B-M60

----------------------------------------------

It's the MtDNA b that originates in SE Asia. "B" is basic Khoisan Y DNA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_B-M60

Haplogroup B (B-M60) is a human Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup common to paternal lineages in Africa. It is a primary branch of the haplogroup BT.

B-M60 is common in parts of Africa, especially the tropical forests of West-Central Africa. It was the ancestral haplogroup of not only modern Pygmies like the Baka and Mbuti, but also Hadzabe from Tanzania, who often have been considered, in large part because of some typological features of their language, to be a remnant of Khoisan people in East Africa.

220px-Haplogrupos_ADN-Y_%C3%81frica.PNG
 
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Factz

Factzopedia
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https://www.somalispot.com/threads/the-shirazi-settlement-of-east-africa.42241/page-4

Grant, Friday at 5:27 AM Report
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"I thought Boni people were Cushitic native to southern Somalia and they joined the Rahanweyn clan as a confederate."

:gaasdrink: I look forward to a link saying the Eyle are E1b1b.


The Boni and Eyle are native, but they are not Cushitic.

I didn't contradict to my statement though. Boni are not Somalis but joined the Somalis (Rahanweyn) and if Eyle are Khoisan than why do they look Somali?
 

Apollo

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https://drum.lib.umd.edu/handle/1903/11443

Page 122:

"Besides the Boni and Sengwer, all current East African hunter-gatherers share common haplotypes (mtDNA L4, L3a, L0d3 and Y chromosome B2a and B2b), suggesting that the current East African hunter-gatherers might represent remnants of the previous pre-Holocene and early Holocene population in the region. The Boni and the Sengwer appear to have had substantial levels of gene flow from other neighboring populations that appear to have the hunter-gatherer “genetic signature”. In fact, the Orma and Kalenjin populations that neighbor the Boni and the Sengwer, respectively, carry hunter-gatherer haplotypes at moderate frequencies indicating possible “reverse” gene flow."

The so-called ''Boon'' or Boni are not pure East African.. far from it actually

They are mixed with outsider Bantus:

42.9% E3a or E1b1a-M2

The Garreh or Garre who are isolated from other Kenyans have 0% of E-M2 while having high (over 70%) E1b1b1-M35

The Sanye, Wata, and Orma are all foreign admixed as well (Bantu E2b, Omotic E1b1a2-M329 etc).

See page 199, Appendix 6a, of that study.
 
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The so-called ''Boon'' or Boni are not pure East African.. far from it actually

They are mixed with outsider Bantus:

42.9% E3a or E1b1a-M2

The Garreh or Garre who are isolated from other Kenyans have 0% of E-M2 while having high (over 70%) E1b1b1-M35.


are Somalis M35. while ago came across jewish dna and they all were sayin its a jewish thing and Somalis are M215 .
 
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Apollo

VIP
Damn this grant guy still hates on us somalis

Some things never change on this forum

He desperately hopes that any other group than the ethnic Somali predate Somalis in Somalia.

First he tried to push the Nigeria-origin Madowweyne as pre-Somali inhabitants of Somalia, but since that became totally annihilated he is now trying to scrape the Bantu-mixed Boon as the next pre-Somalis.
 
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