Siyad Barre Fetishes Is Old

[DR OSMAN]

I didn't watch it all but I know where the 'theme' is heading which is towards the boring rebel narrative 'siyad was a bad man', which is totally a fabrication of the truth. Siyad popularity is increasing among all Somalis due to seeing the alternative was far worse, so if your arguing he was bad, what does that make you and your rebel group? that's why kama 'firsadan' waxay ku hadlayan, war dawlad military waxay dhaanta dawlad la'anti ka dhashtay, they will never get around this fact and why they are being dishonest to the people especially the younger generation who may listen to their crap.

Siyad Barre created everything this nation has, if he is so bad why do u have port/airport/roads/electricity/scholarships/businesses under his rule, he was even expanding to create oil if u left the man alone. He had a wicked foreign policy even though it wasn't 'wise' his russian eviction and his no negiotation attitude about Ogadeniya which simply led the russians to pull out it's support and help the ethiopians.

If Somalia rebel groups did what Tigray Rebels did when menguistu fell thru siyad barre nurturing them on 'strategem' which finally worked, if we did the same as ethiopia and recovered immediately then you have a right to 'mock' the dictatorship, you have no right to mock a govt when all u handed the nation was a state collapse and dark age. A dark age and state collapse is far worse then military govt will ever be. So stop this siyad demonizing, it's getting to the point people are starting to see you are embarassed you wasted Somali people time for 30 years and want to justify your failure by having the 'lets roast siyad' at least siyad had a govt for u to criticise, what the f*ck did u bring in place of it?

The effects on Somalia today are not from the military govt whatsoever but what happened after he left which is your legacy. Siyad Barre govt the only thing left of it is the ppl who prospered under him and their descendants and the national infrastructure. The other thing that still remains from him is the 'govt culture' singing girls on the road, one man institutions based purely on kangaroo shit not the rule of law, etc.

 

[DR OSMAN]

They have totally no leg to stand on internationally thru the UN either and they know it. Anyone who forms a terror/rebel group and instigates state rebellion all nation states are allowed to destroy them at all cost to defend their statehood and sovereignty. That's why the rebel groups will never receive any recognition by any nation, you want to use violence then state has the right to use violence against u. I stand by the fact if u put your people in harms way it's not the govt that is responsible it's your rebel group, so don't cry 'injustice' ka fiirso waxad ku kacaysid cause I don't shed a damn tear for rebel groups.

 

[Dues Ex Machina]

I agree with your arguement in this instance since it follows a logical sequence. I too believe Siyad Barre has long been vindicated since what came after him was at least 100x worse than anything that happened during his watch which ended on Jan 26 1991. At the point if the rebels would form a government I would understand their argument of criticism, however that didn't happen since they had no plan other than to destroy the country and sent us into the dark ages when much of the world was gearing up for a technological boom and Africa was gearing up for a industrial revolution.

There were many projects that Siyad had lined up during the 91 period that would have given Somalia a huge edge on Africa. The first one was obviously the Oil and Gas exploration that many large corporations were given rights to such as British Petroleum (BP), Shell, and Exxon Mobil. The other large infrastructure project that was in the design phase was the Bardheere dam project that would have irrigated over 200,000 hectares of farmland as well as provide electricity for the country. This was all in the works and came after the ports, roads, airports, factories, international scholarships, military innovation, African leadership, etc

The rebel groups did not have a leg to stand on the moment they took up arms against the nations government. Any leader would obviously protect the nations sovereignty and territorial integrity by cracking down on those rebels. This has even been true in modern times like a few years ago when a coup was attempted against Erdogan or even now with the TPLF forming a rebel group against the Ethiopian government. And would be true in Australia or any other western nation.

Their arguments will always fall on deaf ears since the people who lived through Siyad Barre's era and had authority are still around as well as their descendants.

 

[Som]

I agree with your arguement in this instance since it follows a logical sequence. I too believe Siyad Barre has long been vindicated since what came after him was at least 100x worse than anything that happened during his watch which ended on Jan 26 1991. At the point if the rebels would form a government I would understand their argument of criticism, however that didn't happen since they had no plan other than to destroy the country and sent us into the dark ages when much of the world was gearing up for a technological boom and Africa was gearing up for a industrial revolution.

There were many projects that Siyad had lined up during the 91 period that would have given Somalia a huge edge on Africa. The first one was obviously the Oil and Gas exploration that many large corporations were given rights to such as British Petroleum (BP), Shell, and Exxon Mobil. The other large infrastructure project that was in the design phase was the Bardheere dam project that would have irrigated over 200,000 hectares of farmland as well as provide electricity for the country. This was all in the works and came after the ports, roads, airports, factories, international scholarships, military innovation, African leadership, etc

The rebel groups did not have a leg to stand on the moment they took up arms against the nations government. Any leader would obviously protect the nations sovereignty and territorial integrity by cracking down on those rebels. This has even been true in modern times like a few years ago when a coup was attempted against Erdogan or even now with the TPLF forming a rebel group against the Ethiopian government. And would be true in Australia or any other western nation.

Their arguments will always fall on deaf ears since the people who lived through Siyad Barre's era and had authority are still around as well as their descendants.

Siad Barre was very brutal in his crackdown and he justified his brutality bg saying that rebels wanted to destroy the country. While i condemn crimes against civilians , I can also see how Siad's prophecy was correct. The rebels destroyed everything

 

[DR OSMAN]

@Dues Ex Machete there arguments are purely on 'I don't like marehan' therefore I hate siyad. Which is where I pull away since I recognize people legacy irrespective of clan, haday wax reebeen, waan uu aqoonsada irrespective of their clan origins. I myself am by-product of siyad barre govt as my father prospered very well under him, can u compare me to say the next generation that were born from the rebel era? I was born into the rebel era but I always have a father to refer to about a 'govt' my kids will only 'rely' on me also to pass on the truth.

Siyad Barre popularity is 50/50 in Majerten and swinging to 80/20 as times goes on with the dark ages and that's why their releasing all these videos. Hawiye is already 100% siyad supporters since they felt the brunt of the collapse and dark age. Majerten iskuma racsana arinta siyad barre we are all not SSDF supporters at all, we only became SSDF after 91 this what ppl don't say. My dad loves the SSDF to fight the hordes USC and SNM, but steps away and cries about Siyad Barre and says they were totally unjustified about that war and SSDF even collapsed showing you, we support 'governance' at all times irrespective if that govt is dictatorship or not.

It's only that xoolo isaaq who doesn't have a similar culture to us because they are 'cawaan' and do not understand it's about what u inherit from govt that matters not who is running it and political positions and presidency. A presidency title means little beyond pissing contest. Look at hawiye and how many presidency titles they had but they have nothing to point to and say this what I got.

 

[DR OSMAN]

@Dues Ex Machete my assumption is when meles overthrew menguistu and if siyad was still in power he would've asked ogadeniya be ceded to somalia while eritrea wud of been ceded at the same time. One he signed all those oil/gas concessions and baardheere dam, he would've left and ended the military govt since their would've been no more military objective to achieve and a civilian govt created. That is my assumption but we should've just waited for the man like SSDF did and USC-SNM disbanded completely and let him finish the military era, isaga iska bixi laha, wuxu ku joggay mandatekasi ogadeniya and if that was done, he would have no other military reason to continue the dictatorship.

Siyad a 'real' republican and also of the 'nationalist' flavor, he actually really believed in that 'all somalis' are citizens and own everything everywhere purely on 'citizenship' and not 'clan or aristocracy'. Where-as these republican somalis today are only republican in sloganeering and nationalists in slogans, that's why I think it's simply an era that has come to an end and we shouldn't keep dragging it out but finally close that chapter and return to the monarchy and have a 'wakiil' govt of the monarchy

 

[DR OSMAN]

Federalism is simply an attempt to create 'fake monarchy' using the republican method, their working in the republican style govt, and creating new 'federal' regions but they still hold onto that 'republic' attitude that all somalis are citizens of everywhere in somalia and can rule, share, an graze where-ever they so wish but what we see is mismatch with the people locally who do not support that a somali is citizen of his 'territory' so the somali citizenship idea has to be overthrown and the only way to do that is to re-install a monarchy as a head of state that 'delimits' lands based on 'royal jurisdiction' and the govt simply is a guest of the royals and serving the people not making land decision matters or citizenship matters

I know there has been no real heavyweight osman mahmoud involved in this republic nonsense as we hold that a monarchy is the only solutions, we dont want to work with a republic and its subsequent federal structures, a republic is what we what against that all somalis are equal n free to the land as citizens and to disregard the older aristocracy n sultanates. It's a clash of the shape of the state and the role of the govt, where-as republican are clashing on the shape of the govt and it's powers and jurisdictions. Anagu waxan diidan nahay sida stateka oo dhan loo sameeye niyahow, not the govt powers

Somalis are republicans of the unitary or federal structure lakin deep down osman mahmouds are not republicans of any flavor and prefer the state is reorganized on the past and the govt given limited duties on behalf of the royal house, all osman mahmoud would be in joy then

 

[Odkac WRLD]

MSB was better than the xaar we have today.

 

[Dues Ex Machina]

To get a clear understanding of that era and the various military maneuvers that were ongoing in that period you have to look for data and do an analysis. Some people go on emotions and that leads nowhere since it isn't based on fact gathering or the scientific method. Objective reports on these subjects is the place to start when doing a comprehensive inquiry.

The best resources on these matters are the intelligence services that kept tabs on Somalia and wrote extensively about the internal affairs as well as external affairs. I have compiled declassified documents from the CIA and and other similar agencies in particular and they usually mention how advanced the Somali military apparatus was at the time.

For instance they believed the Kenyan military would be unable to defend the NFD region from a Somali invasion and also admitted that the Ethiopian/Libyan governments were working with the rebel groups for a specific goal. They didn't want them to topple the government and simply replace it. They wanted to destroy Somalia as it was since it was a constant geopolitical threat. Most people that see things through emotions and not reasoning won't be able to understand this.


I'm sure an example you can understand clearly is your native Australia's response to armed insurgencies created within its territory that conducts attacks against their military personnel as well as other key structures. No government in the world would sit idly by and watch this occur since it would be against their main responsibility of maintaining territorial integrity and sovereignty. If you don't protect those two things you don't have a 'state apparatus' any longer and that is what has happened in Somalia. You seem to posses some analytical abilities so I will share a few documents that go into this matter a bit to get your take on them and we can go from there.