Saw this tiktok, divinity of Isa pbuh debated, my thoughts. (religion)

[Khaem]

I cam across this tiktok by Christians where they show jesus (isa pbuh) saying "God is upon me, because the lord has anointed me to bring good news to the afflicted"
How can Christians come to the conclusion that he is god if their book states jesus speaking of God as a seperate entity who has sent him to give a message to the people. He literally introduces himself as a prophet not a god or lord of any sorts. I keep seeing this inconsistency in Christianity and had a Scottish friend in school once try to explain the trinity to me but i couldn't understand it and when I asked him to explain the "3 in 1" thing further he couldn't and just said it's a thing you have to accept.

I have a theory that since the original bible written in the Semetic languages spoken in the Levant at the time are lost and the ones we have are from the Greek translation it might have been altered to call jesus a god. I mean greeks have been worshipping men as deities forever, they don't have a concept of a single omnipotent god as the semites do. So they changed it to represent god in a man, the prophet isa, to make it easier to accept for the greeks and later the wider roman empire. Christianity started as a radical Jewish sect, does a god represented by a man sound Jewish to you? Furthermore, early into Christianity, there was a debate between Christians on whether or not jesus was god.

This talks about the debate but it's written by a Christian so it's biased, I'm using it to prove that the divinity of jesus did come into question by the early christians.


The source:

 

[Khaem]

Yes I made all of this just because of an edit on tik tok....
It's nearly 1 am wtf am I doing reading sources on the divinity of the prophet isa pbuh.

 

[Odious Delirium]

Christians don't read there bible. Jesus isn't the only one called the son of God all the messengers in the bible are called the sons of god in fact they all call themselves the son's of god. Its all a bunch of grammatical errors and things lost in translation being miss understood as it passed between languages. A term of endearment turned into a term of reverence. Scholars of the Greek language went through the orginal and find the term to just mean the son used out of endearment and closeness. The Christians just came up with there own conclusions and took it literally but decided not to take it literally in the other places its written in the same context.

Plus Paul came out of no where (90 years after esa supposedly passed away) a man who persecuted Christians and randomly on a Sunday was enlighten by God (keep In mind Christians up to this point didn't worship jesus and only worshipped one god)

He started writing the bible saying God inspired him and introduced the trinity into Christianity changing the whole aqidah. All modern Christian doctrines today all started with him. No one knows on who's authority he did this all on and every one just accepts his word as the truth.

Most of the authors of the bible are also unknown. It's says luke and John etc but they didn't write it. The disciples of jesus where simple and ilitrate men and they didn't speak Greek of course which the earliest copies of the bible are in 300 years after.

To put it into perspective the bible is basically a haeeth book written through the perspectives of the sahababa by men who where hundreds years apart from them that we know nothing about making them diaif by default

 

[Khaem]

Christians don't read there bible. Jesus isn't the only one called the son of God all the messengers in the bible are called the sons of god in fact they all call themselves the son's of god. Its all a bunch of grammatical errors and things lost in translation being miss understood as it passed between languages. A term of endearment turned into a term of reverence. Scholars of the Greek language went through the orginal and find the term to just the son used out of endearment and closeness. The Christians just came up with there own conclusions.

Plus Paul came out of no where (90 years after esa supposedly passed away) a man who persecuted Christians and randomly on a Sunday was enlighten by God (keep In mind Christians up to this point didn't worship jesus and only worshipped one god)

He started writing the bible saying God inspired him and introduced the trinity into Christianity changing the whole aqidah. All modern Christian doctrines today all started with him. No one knows on who's authority he did this all on and every one just accepts his word as the truth.

Most of the authors of the bible are also unknown. It's says luke and John etc but they didn't write it. The disciples of jesus where simple and ilitrate men and they didn't speak Greek of course which the earliest copies of the bible are in 300 years after.

To put it into perspective the bible is basically a haeeth book written through the perspectives of the sahababa by men who where hundreds years apart from them that we know nothing about making them diaif by default

This is my main problem with translating holy books between different languages.
Imagine the English who read the king James version. It first went from a Semetic language to Greek (big difference) and then from Greek to Latin then from Latin to English. Every one of them is a whole different language family. You simply cannot carry over everything, the multiple translations made it more and more corrupt.

I also don't understand how the bible has so many versions and Christianity has so msnt sects. I was under the impression that the bible was considered the word of God as is the Quran. Or do Christians just treat it like a set of hadiths that they pick and choose from.

Western Christians don't take their religion that seriously at all tbh let alone read the bible, it's essentially just culture to them. The west uses Christianity as a way to get their basic morals from eg, sodomy bad, virginity good ect.
But most leave out everything else.

 

[Odious Delirium]

This is my main problem with translating holy books between different languages.
Imagine the English who read the king James version. It first went from a Semetic language to Greek (big difference) and then from Greek to Latin then from Latin to English. Every one of them is a whole different language family. You simply cannot carry over everything, the multiple translations made it more and more corrupt.

I also don't understand how the bible has so many versions and Christianity has so msnt sects. I was under the impression that the bible was considered the word of God as is the Quran. Or do Christians just treat it like a set of hadiths that they pick and choose from.

Western Christians don't take their religion that seriously at all tbh let alone read the bible, it's essentially just culture to them. The west uses Christianity as a way to get their basic morals from eg, sodomy bad, virginity good ect.
But most leave out everything else.

The actual issue is that it didn't even go from the original aramaic to Greek we only have the Greek as the furthest back which is available plus I believe aramaic is an extinct language correct me if I'm wrong.

The bible is the word of God but that is what it's the equivalent of in muslim terms based on how it was preserved and even then its worse then what I stated. Christians don't treat there bible like the word of God neither like the hadeeth most are agnostic.

 

[Khaem]

The actual issue is that it didn't even go from the original aramaic to Greek we only have the Greek as the furthest back which is available plus I believe aramaic is an extinct language correct me if I'm wrong.

The bible is the word of God but that is what it's the equivalent of in muslim terms based on how it was preserved and even then its worse then what I stated. Christians don't treat there bible like the word of God neither like the hadeeth most are agnostic.

Yeah the bibles original language is basically dead. No one knows the original bibe anymore, all bibles originate from a poorly translated and corrupted Greek version.

They just follow the basic things and make everything else up as they go. That's why every other church has their own version of a bible, so confusing now so many are Christian. Other religions like Islam are so streamlined and simple I just get a headache thinking about these things.

 

[SuperBantuWeyne]

Christians don't read there bible. Jesus isn't the only one called the son of God all the messengers in the bible are called the sons of god in fact they all call themselves the son's of god. Its all a bunch of grammatical errors and things lost in translation being miss understood as it passed between languages. A term of endearment turned into a term of reverence. Scholars of the Greek language went through the orginal and find the term to just mean the son used out of endearment and closeness. The Christians just came up with there own conclusions and took it literally but decided not to take it literally in the other places its written in the same context.

Plus Paul came out of no where (90 years after esa supposedly passed away) a man who persecuted Christians and randomly on a Sunday was enlighten by God (keep In mind Christians up to this point didn't worship jesus and only worshipped one god)

He started writing the bible saying God inspired him and introduced the trinity into Christianity changing the whole aqidah. All modern Christian doctrines today all started with him. No one knows on who's authority he did this all on and every one just accepts his word as the truth.

Most of the authors of the bible are also unknown. It's says luke and John etc but they didn't write it. The disciples of jesus where simple and ilitrate men and they didn't speak Greek of course which the earliest copies of the bible are in 300 years after.

To put it into perspective the bible is basically a haeeth book written through the perspectives of the sahababa by men who where hundreds years apart from them that we know nothing about making them diaif by default

Jesus isn't just a son of God, he's the only one called The Son of God, it makes a big difference as it highlight his uniqueness. He also fulfilled many prophecies showing He was the Messiah, the Messiah according to the old Testament isn't a simple prophet but "God amongst men". Many of these prophecies clearly state his divinity like when he admits being the " Son of Man" of Daniel 7:13-14 in his trial whom “dominion, glory, and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and men of every language might serve Him.” The Son of Man has a dominion that is everlasting and will not pass away, only God can. The High Priest, who immediately recognized Jesus’ claim to divinity, tore his robe and declared Jesus guilty of blasphemy.The jews who rejected him as a Messiah did so because Jesus clearly stated His divinity and they took it as blasphemous even though it was written in the old Testament prophecies about the Messiah. They didn't reject him as a simple prophet, not because of his miracles but because of his claimed divinity much like muslims today.
Paul didn't come out of nowhere, he spent time with the likes of Peter, James the Just. .. His conversion was a miracle. The new testament books were written contemporary to the lives of the apostles or apostle disciples between 50 and 100 CE, no safer sources exist.

 

[AMusee]

Christianity as we know it today is Paul's religion. A man who had never met Jesus AS and was at odds with his actual disciples. There are hints of this in the New Testament. The religion of Jesus AS historically was kept by his disciples and all Christian and Atheist historians now say history shows Jesus AS and his followers had the same beliefs as Muslims and kept the law. Paul was influenced by greco-roman religion about demi-gods like hercules here to save the world.

Dr Ali Ataie has made some informative videos on the subject on blogging theology.

 

[Odious Delirium]

Jesus isn't just a son of God, he's the only one called The Son of God, it makes a big difference as it highlight his uniqueness. He also fulfilled many prophecies showing He was the Messiah, the Messiah according to the old Testament isn't a simple prophet but "God amongst men". Many of these prophecies clearly state his divinity like when he admits being the " Son of Man" of Daniel 7:13-14 in his trial whom “dominion, glory, and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and men of every language might serve Him.” The Son of Man has a dominion that is everlasting and will not pass away, only God can. The High Priest, who immediately recognized Jesus’ claim to divinity, tore his robe and declared Jesus guilty of blasphemy.The jews who rejected him as a Messiah did so because Jesus clearly stated His divinity and they took it as blasphemous even though it was written in the old Testament prophecies about the Messiah. They didn't reject him as a simple prophet, not because of his miracles but because of his claimed divinity much like muslims today.
Paul didn't come out of nowhere, he spent time with the likes of Peter, James the Just. .. His conversion was a miracle. The new testament books were written contemporary to the lives of the apostles or apostle disciples between 50 and 100 CE, no safer sources exist.

Adam was called the son of God yakub/Israel was called the son of God, Solomon was called the son of God some pious men and other prophet's where called the son of God. You can search this up. I'll give one example when Jesus's gynecology is being listed in luke 3:38 Adam is called THE son of God so that's cap.

We do not know any of the claims you make with regards to Jesus claiming divinity because there are no authentic sources that are available about what Jesus actually stated about himself plus the Jews are know for killing many of there prophets or at least trying to. Does that mean they all where killed because they claimed divinity

They killed anyone who tried to change the status quo esa was another one they tried to kill for correcting there ways.

Being the Messiah has nothing todo with being God we as Muslims believe esa is the Messiah the Jews believe like you stated that a Messiah will come but they don't state that God himself is a Messiah. The only one's who got the wrong memo are the Christians and this only came about because of Paul's corruptions.

Paul very much came out of no where he said he was divinely inspired and we now have his version of Christianity because of him aswell as the council of nicaea who decided of there own volition to keep and remove parts of the bible. Now who was a part of this council? No one knows. We don't know the character of these individuals or there agendas or why they decided to do what they did and they are the ones that fully establish doctrines like the trinity and we don't know on who's authority or for what reason they did it either.

The Ethiopian bible that was disconnected because of that has extra chapters. While missing other ones.

This is the equivalent of you and me randomly deciding to edit the quran anonymously on the net and then passing that off to the masses and everyone just accepting what ever doctrines we added or removed for our own agendas.

Christianity is a joke there are many errors about the same events across the different authors and most of the authors are unknown. This is stated by biblical scholars not me. How anyone can follow something like that makes no sense.

Your defending something that is indefensible

 

[Khaem]

Adam was called the son of God yakub/Israel was called the son of God, Solomon was called the son of God some pious men and other prophet's where called the son of God. You can search this up. I'll give one example when Jesus's gynecology is being listed in luke 3:38 Adam is called THE son of God so that's cap.

We do not know any of the claims you make with regards to Jesus claiming divinity because there are no authentic sources that are available about what Jesus actually stated about himself plus the Jews are know for killing many of there prophets or at least trying to. Does that mean they all where killed because they claimed divinity

They killed anyone who tried to change the status quo esa was another one they tried to kill for correcting there ways.

Being the Messiah has nothing todo with being God we as Muslims believe esa is the Messiah the Jews believe like you stated that a Messiah will come but they don't state that God himself is a Messiah. The only one's who got the wrong memo are the Christians and this only came about because of Paul's corruptions.

Paul very much came out of no where he said he was divinely inspired and we now have his version of Christianity because of him aswell as the council of nicaea who decided of there own volition to keep and remove parts of the bible. Now who was a part of this council? No one knows. We don't know the character of these individuals or there agendas or why they decided to do what they did and they are the ones that fully establish doctrines like the trinity and we don't know on who's authority or for what reason they did it either.

The Ethiopian bible that was disconnected because of that has extra chapters. While missing other ones.

This is the equivalent of you and me randomly deciding to edit the quran anonymously on the net and then passing that off to the masses and everyone just accepting what ever doctrines we added or removed for our own agendas.

Christianity is a joke there are many errors about the same events across the different authors and most of the authors are unknown. This is stated by biblical scholars not me. How anyone can follow something like that makes no sense.

Your defending something that is indefensible

I can't understand how Christians follow and use the bible as a source when it has been changed and altered so much by people we do not even know

 

[Odious Delirium]

@SuperBantuWeyne are you Christian?

 

[AMusee]

 

[Rakoon]

Imagine us Somalis converting to Islam for the first time in its purest monotheistic form. Allah is one, Mohammed is a prophet and a human being, and salvation comes through faith and work. We have copies of the original Quran spread in all parts of the country and in every masjid. For 100 years, we stay on the right path, but suddenly, a guy called Paul shows up with a totally different religion and starts to preach that Allah is made of three persons, Mohammed is God himself, and salvation comes through him. He changes the original Quran and produces his own edited version. During his lifetime, and becomes successful in altering a pure monotheistic region that existed for less than 100 years into pure shirk.

The followers of Issa عليه السلام brought shame to monotheistism it shouldn't be that easy

 

[Nin123]

I cam across this tiktok by Christians where they show jesus (isa pbuh) saying "God is upon me, because the lord has anointed me to bring good news to the afflicted"
How can Christians come to the conclusion that he is god if their book states jesus speaking of God as a seperate entity who has sent him to give a message to the people. He literally introduces himself as a prophet not a god or lord of any sorts. I keep seeing this inconsistency in Christianity and had a Scottish friend in school once try to explain the trinity to me but i couldn't understand it and when I asked him to explain the "3 in 1" thing further he couldn't and just said it's a thing you have to accept.

I have a theory that since the original bible written in the Semetic languages spoken in the Levant at the time are lost and the ones we have are from the Greek translation it might have been altered to call jesus a god. I mean greeks have been worshipping men as deities forever, they don't have a concept of a single omnipotent god as the semites do. So they changed it to represent god in a man, the prophet isa, to make it easier to accept for the greeks and later the wider roman empire. Christianity started as a radical Jewish sect, does a god represented by a man sound Jewish to you? Furthermore, early into Christianity, there was a debate between Christians on whether or not jesus was god.

View attachment 284906
This talks about the debate but it's written by a Christian so it's biased, I'm using it to prove that the divinity of jesus did come into question by the early christians.


The source:

Mate Christianity doesn’t make sense at all.
They are saying Jesus is son of god and basically is the new god of this world.
So that mean Jesus will take his father throne? So god will die then. And did god had father who created him, and his father had another one create him?
And after they die do they go to gods heaven ?

 

[Khaem]

Mate Christianity doesn’t make sense at all.
They are saying Jesus is son of god and basically is the new god of this world.
So that mean Jesus will take his father throne? So god will die then. And did god had father who created him, and his father had another one create him?
And after they die do they go to gods heaven ?

Does god have a wife? Where's the daughter? Is god saving to send his son jesus to college?

The greco-romans saw the story of virgin Mary and thought it was the same thing as their Greek bullshit where gods come and impregnate women and create new god babies.

 

[Khaem]

Imagine us Somalis converting to Islam for the first time in its purest monotheistic form. Allah is one, Mohammed is a prophet and a human being, and salvation comes through faith and work. We have copies of the original Quran spread in all parts of the country and in every masjid. For 100 years, we stay on the right path, but suddenly, a guy called Paul shows up with a totally different religion and starts to preach that Allah is made of three persons, Mohammed is God himself, and salvation comes through him. He changes the original Quran and produces his own edited version. During his lifetime, and becomes successful in altering a pure monotheistic region that existed for less than 100 years into pure shirk.

The followers of Issa عليه السلام brought shame to monotheistism it shouldn't be that easy

Yeah it's absolutely crazy how this one guy just changed a religion and made it go against it's core tenants monotheism and oneness of God into some "3 in 1" bs.

 

[Odious Delirium]

Jesus isn't just a son of God, he's the only one called The Son of God, it makes a big difference as it highlight his uniqueness. He also fulfilled many prophecies showing He was the Messiah, the Messiah according to the old Testament isn't a simple prophet but "God amongst men". Many of these prophecies clearly state his divinity like when he admits being the " Son of Man" of Daniel 7:13-14 in his trial whom “dominion, glory, and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and men of every language might serve Him.” The Son of Man has a dominion that is everlasting and will not pass away, only God can.

 

[Khaem]

He's right. This should be more widespread. Jesus never spoke of himself as a god in the bible until some parts were added in by ex-pagan men with their own motives hundreds of years later.

 

[AMusee]

 

[Omar del Sur]

looking for holes in the bible is like looking for sand in the desert. it's like looking for snow in the north pole. there's just this enormous amount of holes in the bible.

one person here said language of the Bible. it isn't even in one language.

in reality, the Bible is a compilation of books. "biblioteca" in Spanish is a library. the Bible is really a set of books.

I don't want to say much about the holes because it's so easy to point at the holes.... the hard part would be to collect them all... I want to mention that.... I was so baffled as to why Christians don't defend what are supposed to be their values and I think I finally understand why they seem so weak.

I was watching a documentary on Abd El-Krim the other day and they talked about how his soldiers were outnumbered by the colonialists and up against such difficult odds and they said Abd El-Krim said that his secret was.... the morale of his men. They faced terrible conditions but they had strong will, strong motivation to fight.

I believe the Christians lack this because they really don't have confidence in their religion. Just like the atheists, deep down, they are deeply insecure in their belief. we know their religion is full of holes and deep down they know it too.

I really recommend the book misquoting Jesus by Bart Ehrman. the book very clearly shows that the Bible has fabricated narrations. there is a famous story where Jesus says "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" and he prevents the people from stoning an adulteress. well it was shown that this was not in the earliest copies of the book where the story is found. it is a fabricated narration that was added only into later copies of the book, it did not exist in the earlier copies.