Puntites vs Cushites [Poll]

Which group do you think the Somali people are descendants from?


  • Total voters
    49

Huur

Huur = Horus
Apart from what our oral traditions provides. The ethnic origins of Somalis will always remain unknown.
Currently there are two competing theories in answering this question.

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1. Somalis are descendants of Puntites, from the Land of Punt

-Definition: The ancient Egyptians called Punt Ta netjer, meaning "God's Land". This referred to the fact that it was among the regions of the Sun God, that is, the regions located in the direction of the sunrise, to the East of Egypt. Some biblical scholars have identified it with the biblical land of Put.


-History: The earliest recorded Egyptian expedition to Punt was organized by Pharaoh Sahure of the Fifth Dynasty (25th century BC). A trading partner of Egypt, it was known for producing and exporting gold, aromatic resins,
blackwood, ebony, ivory, and wild animals. The region is known from ancient Egyptian records of trade expeditions to it. These eastern regions' resources also included products used in temples, notably incense.

-Location: The majority opinion places Punt in Northeastern Africa, based on the fact that the products of Punt
(as depicted in the Hatshepsut illustrations) were abundantly found in the Horn of Africa but were less common or sometimes absent in Arabia.These products included gold and aromatic resins such as myrrh, frankincense, and ebony; the wild animals depicted in Punt included giraffes, baboons, hippopotami, and leopards. Says Richard Pankhurst

-Significance: "... ancient Egyptians viewed the Land of Punt as their ancestral homeland. W. M. Flinders Petrie believed that the Dynastic Race came from or through Punt and that "Pan, or Punt, was a district at the south end of the Red Sea, which probably embraced both the African and Arabian shores."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_of_Punt

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2. Somalis are descendants of Cush son of Ham, from the Land of Kush

-Definition: Cush or Kush is the name of an ancient ethnic group who came from the land of Kush, centered on the Upper Nile and Nubia (modern-day Sudan). Mentioned in the Hebrew Bible, they are considered descendants of Noah's grandson, Cush the son of Ham.

The word Cushi, also spelled Kushi (Hebrew: כושי‎‎) is a Hebrew term generally
used to refer to a dark-skinned person usually of African descent.

In Modern Israeli Hebrew usage, the term Cushi was not initially used as a pejorative term.
At times, it was even used to refer fondly to a person of dark skin or a red haired person.
It is used as a term of endearment in the case of the renowned Israeli commando of Yemenite extraction, Shimon "Kushi" Rimon (1939–present)

It is generally understood as a derogatory word when referring to Ethiopian Jews today.
(perhaps this is also the case when referring to all Ethiopians who claim patrilineal descent from King Solomon of Israel (Prophet Suleiman A.S)

- History: Initially the word was used by Hebrew-speaking Jews to refer to individuals of Ethiopian origin, derived from the Biblical land of Cush.

"The land of Cush is associated in Scripture with several areas in the ancient world,
but its most common link is to the land of Ethiopia south of Egypt. Some English translations of
the Bible simply put “Ethiopia” where the Hebrew reads “Cush” (see the KJV, NASB, and NET versions of Psalm 68:31, for example)."


1. Psalm 68:31 - King James Version (KJV)

31 Princes shall come out of Egypt; Ethiopia shall soon stretch out her hands unto God.



2. Psalm 68:31 - English Standard Version (ESV)

31 Nobles shall come from Egypt;

Cush shall hasten to stretch out her hands to God.


-Location: Ethiopia (Biblical account) or Sudan/Nubia (Theorized by Archeologists)

-Significance: "On the periphery of history in antiquity, there was a land known as Kush.
Overshadowed by Egypt, to the north, it was a place of uncharted breadth and depth far up the Nile,
a mystery verging on myth. One thing the Egyptians did know and recorded — Kush had gold."

https://www.gotquestions.org/Cushites.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cushi
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/19/science/19kush.html

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[Somali Language Classification]:

Linguists have categorized the Somali language as being part of the "Cushtic" branch of the Afro-Asiatic Languages.
Keep in mind that in linguistics this is merely a term (Phylum) used to classify languages that are considered to be related to each other. No actual biological relationship between speakers is implied by the metaphor.

It is possible, if linguists want, to reclassify the "Cushtic" branch into being called the "Puntite" branch.


Language classifications have always been subject to change

History of Afro-Asiatic Classification

"...A Frenchman, Guillaume Postel, reported the affinity of Hebrew, Arabic, and Aramaic in 1538, a connection
long known to Jewish and Islamic scholars. In 1702 Hiob Ludolf extended this Semitic nucleus to include the
Ethiopic Semitic languages of East Africa, and finally in 1781 von Schlozer proposed the name "Semitic"
.

During the first half of the nineteenth century, Ancient Egyptian and the Berber and Cushtic families became associated in a group called "Hamitic"...The Berber scholar Francis W. Newman sought to establish the relationship of Hausa to the Hamito-Semitic group in 1844, an affinity accepted by Max Muller in the 1850's and Karl Lepsius in the 1860's. Furthermore, it soon became apparent that Hausa was related to other languages in a family now known as "Chadic"... Thus by the late nineteenth century a fairly coherent picture of the Hamito-Semitic family had emerged..."

"...Lesius, as we saw in the preceding section, incorrectly included Nama in the Hamitic group, but most scholars did not follow him on this point."

"Despite the fairly clear evidence of the Hamito-Semitic affinity of Hausa (and hence the whole Chadic family), many scholars continued to express reservations, or even outright denial, until the mid-twentieth century.
Greenberg's 1950 classification effectively ended the century-old debate
"

pg. 87 - A Guide to the World's Languages: Classification: By Merritt Ruhlen


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_family
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cushitic_languages
 
Interesting, well i'm from Punt, therfore that makes me a Puntite. Does that make us Puntites that speak a Cushtic language? Either way, both components make the modern ethnicity: Somali.
 

AceofSom

nx]\\0-9
This is what happens when idiots try to discuss Somali History.:draketf:

First of all the mythical Punt was a kingdom which hasn't been discovered, theoretically speaking it could be anywhere from Sudan to Somalia.

Secondly, Cushitic isn't a race but a linguistic classification. However if we were to take "Cushitic as a race", for example a group of people extending from Sudan to Somalia, then yes Punt would have most likely been a "Cushitic" nation and in turn a change it would have founded by the ancestors of the Somali people.
 

merka

Somaliland Sovereignist
VIP
This is what happens when idiots try to discuss Somali History.:draketf:

First of all the mythical Punt was a kingdom which hasn't been discovered, theoretically speaking it could be anywhere from Sudan to Somalia.

Secondly, Cushitic isn't a race but a linguistic classification. However if we were to take "Cushitic as a race", for example a group of people extending from Sudan to Somalia, then yes Punt would have most likely been a "Cushitic" nation and in turn a change it would have founded by the ancestors of the Somali people.
Would that mean all East Africans are Puntites? :hemad:
 
I wonder why Cushitic is only used as a linguistic classification, compared to bantu/semetic, which is used as ethnic group:patrice:
 
I wonder why Cushitic is only used as a linguistic classification, compared to bantu/semetic, which is used as ethnic group:patrice:
Cushitic, Semitic, Hamitic etc. all were biblical terms. I don't really think Semitic is used mainly as an ethnic classification, but a linguistic one.
 
This is what happens when idiots try to discuss Somali History.:draketf:

First of all the mythical Punt was a kingdom which hasn't been discovered, theoretically speaking it could be anywhere from Sudan to Somalia.

Secondly, Cushitic isn't a race but a linguistic classification. However if we were to take "Cushitic as a race", for example a group of people extending from Sudan to Somalia, then yes Punt would have most likely been a "Cushitic" nation and in turn a change it would have founded by the ancestors of the Somali people.
We don't care! Puntite sounds refreshing and mysterious.

And you need to follow the business model of Puntites; they supplied a commodity that was worth its weight in gold. And
the only regions to harvest this flora and fauna are Sool, Sanaag and Bari.
 

TheLibertarianQuiche

Quintessentially negroid: Your problem?
This is what happens when idiots try to discuss Somali History.:draketf:

First of all the mythical Punt was a kingdom which hasn't been discovered, theoretically speaking it could be anywhere from Sudan to Somalia.

Secondly, Cushitic isn't a race but a linguistic classification. However if we were to take "Cushitic as a race", for example a group of people extending from Sudan to Somalia, then yes Punt would have most likely been a "Cushitic" nation and in turn a change it would have founded by the ancestors of the Somali people.
1. Search up Mosylon, Opone etc. You'll find a plethora of sources regarding Greco-Roman and Egyptian trade with Northern Somalia and at one point we were colonised by ancient Egypt.
2. Pliny and other Roman intellectuals stated that Mosylon (Bosasso), Opone (Haafun) and Zeila are in Punt.
3. I can't be fucked arguing anymore.
 

DeathWish

Hotep and Hebrew Israelite
This is what happens when idiots try to discuss Somali History.:draketf:

First of all the mythical Punt was a kingdom which hasn't been discovered, theoretically speaking it could be anywhere from Sudan to Somalia.

Secondly, Cushitic isn't a race but a linguistic classification. However if we were to take "Cushitic as a race", for example a group of people extending from Sudan to Somalia, then yes Punt would have most likely been a "Cushitic" nation and in turn a change it would have founded by the ancestors of the Somali people.
1. The Horn of Africa is the most likely place, because of the items they traded with the Egyptians are only found in the Horn.
2. Punt is in modern day Southern Eritrea/Northern Somalia/Djibouti. The mummified animals that were sent from Punt to Egypt were from these regions.
3. Some artifacts were found with the help of "spirits" (djinns).

 
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