Let's discuss the hadith, do we really need them? [No insults]

Discussion in 'Religion' started by White, Jul 2, 2018.

?
  1. Yes

    6 vote(s)
    54.5%
  2. No

    5 vote(s)
    45.5%
  1. White

    White Sippin tea in yo hood. PS IM A DUDE

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    Why do we really need the hadith? It's not as if they're really helpful in anyway. We have the sunnah for the practical parts of Islam and the Quran for the message of God, so why do we really need the hadith?

    Also if you believe I'm wrong somehow, then say why instead of trying to claim I'm a kafir or some bullshit like that.
    I am gonna post a few links to sahih hadith, and if you still wanna believe in the hadith that makes a prophet of God into a slave trader pedophile, then go ahead, but I would like to at least know why you people think these hadith should be equal to the Quran.

    Important reminder, these are not sunnah, they are from the hadith collections.
    Also, don't try to say these hadith are false, these are valid sahih hadith


    https://sunnah.com/muslim/22/152
    https://sunnah.com/bukhari/67/70
    https://sunnah.com/bukhari/60/135
    https://sunnah.com/bukhari/25/81
    .

    Do you still think that these are normal? That God destroyed a people because their women used hair extensions? That the prophet sells black slaves? That the prophet married a 6 year old? I find it hard to see the prophet as a good man if he was all of that.

    I'm a muslim, I live by the word of God. But I really cannot see the prophet as someone respectable if he was these things as described by the hadith.

    Macsalaam for now, I wish to see your opinions regarding this when I return.
     
  2. MuslimManMe

    MuslimManMe

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    (Sahih International)
    And when it is said to them, "Come to what Allah has revealed and to the Messenger," you see the hypocrites turning away from you in aversion.

    -Sura An-Nisa', Ayah 61

    (Sahih International)
    So how [will it be] when disaster strikes them because of what their hands have put forth and then they come to you swearing by Allah, "We intended nothing but good conduct and accommodation."

    -Sura An-Nisa', Ayah 62

    (Sahih International)
    Those are the ones of whom Allah knows what is in their hearts, so turn away from them but admonish them and speak to them a far-reaching word.

    -Sura An-Nisa', Ayah 63

    (Sahih International)
    And We did not send any messenger except to be obeyed by permission of Allah . And if, when they wronged themselves, they had come to you, [O Muhammad], and asked forgiveness of Allah and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Accepting of repentance and Merciful.

    -Sura An-Nisa', Ayah 64
     
  3. White

    White Sippin tea in yo hood. PS IM A DUDE

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    Your own thoughts, not copy paste, otherwise I'll simply ignore.
     
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  4. YourBroMoe

    YourBroMoe Who the fuck am I? ギくェズー

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    Is there an "I don't fucking know" option?
     
  5. White

    White Sippin tea in yo hood. PS IM A DUDE

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    Your opinion is needed, do you believe that the hadith are necessary, if so why? If not, why?
     
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  6. YourBroMoe

    YourBroMoe Who the fuck am I? ギくェズー

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    Growing up, the hadith made Islam a more comprehensive and organized faith. The rulings and what to do made sense and were stripped of all vagueness. For this, I believe the hadith is useful.

    On the other hand, there seems to be an alarming amount of weird hadiths that are straight up crazy and have nothing to do with anything.

    For these reasons, I dunno if completely removing the hadith will be beneficial to the Muslim community as a whole in the big picture.

    Those are my thoughts on the matter.
     
  7. Kafir

    Kafir

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    If the hadiths were really necessary to practice Islam. Why didn't Allah preserve them the same way he supposedly did the Quran?
     
  8. YourBroMoe

    YourBroMoe Who the fuck am I? ギくェズー

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    It wasn't. The Quran was made into written form in the age of the 3rd Caliph. At least know the faith you love criticizing.
     
  9. Kafir

    Kafir

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    Uthman canonized the Quran we have today. He burned any other version that existed at the time. It's why I included the word "supposedly". But that isn't the point of my question. My question is directed at Muslims who say the Quran is the unaltered word of Allah. Muslims who also use the hadiths. To these I ask why was the Quran preserved but not the hadiths? If they believe the hadiths are necessary to practice Islam, shouldn't they also have been preserved?
     
  10. YourBroMoe

    YourBroMoe Who the fuck am I? ギくェズー

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    :what1: They are.

    Why do you think there's a concept of weak and strong hadith?
    Because of the strength of the validity of said hadiths.
    That's where Sahih Hadith comes from. It translates as Sound hadith.
     
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  11. Kafir

    Kafir

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    The concept of a weak hadith and strong hadith shouldn't exist if Allah preserved them. The fact that there are strong/weak hadiths implies that there is an element of uncertainty. Do you also believe in strong/weak surahs in the Quran? That you can just ignore the weak ones because of that uncertainty?
     
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  12. YourBroMoe

    YourBroMoe Who the fuck am I? ギくェズー

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    People want to know what the Prophet's thoughts were for everyday life. Hence why the hadith was compiled. The uncertainty of the hadith has to do with the fact that it's technically hearsay. But an account that's verified by a lot of witnesses creates the overall strength of said hadith.

    Now comparing this with the Quran is rather stupid. The Quran is not the words of the Prophet, like the hadith, but the words of God, relayed by the Messenger, heard directly by the followers in mass. This makes every surah verifiable and reliable as the followers of the Prophet all collectively heard the exact same message. Hence why it was so important to preserve it. So that God's words don't get sullied.

    The hadith acts as a helpful guide for everyday life. The Quran is the words of God that leads a man towards truth in a spiritual fashion. Comparing the two in this case doesn't make much sense.
     
  13. Kafir

    Kafir

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    So do people just want to know about thoughts and sayings? Or do they have to know about them to practice Islam? This is what separates you from a Quranist. If it's only for the sake of curiosity then the hadiths aren't necessary to practice Islam. If they have to know about them to practice Islam then I can argue that they should be preserved. How would a Muslim know how to pray if not for the hadiths?

    Also what makes Muhammad so special in Islam was the fact that he was bringing to you the words of Allah himself. Not his own words or thoughts or anything. If the hadiths don't have the same connection to Allah's will like the Quran does, then how can you say that the hadiths are necessary to practice Islam?
     
  14. YourBroMoe

    YourBroMoe Who the fuck am I? ギくェズー

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    Good points. I dunno. Cheers mate.
     
  15. White

    White Sippin tea in yo hood. PS IM A DUDE

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    Praying is from the Sunnah, not the hadith. Just a correction.
     
  16. Fang4

    Fang4

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    The ones who collected the Hadith to together were the ones who collected the Quran together. Do you pray five times it is mentioned in the Hadith not in Quran. We are Muslims we follow Allah and his prophet saw. There are rulings regarding the in the Hadith if it’s weak, fabrication, sahih and more, it’s called the golden chain of the Hadith. There many videos on youtube search it up and increase your knowledge to not take the words of others without research them just spoon feeding you.
     
  17. Sakandari

    Sakandari

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  18. Shushue

    Shushue

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    The Hadith are needed because the Quran is confusing by itself, you need the story behind every chapter and verse.

    The Hadith are basically commentary of the Quran and Islam itself
     
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  19. Yaquub

    Yaquub

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    I guess the hebrew women were really AA, since they are the only ones that have a wig obsession.

    :siilaanyolaugh:
     
  20. LI0N7

    LI0N7

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    Another one. The Atheist moderators are really getting in the people's heads.
     
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