Legendary Dr Adna Adan meets with Irir Samaale wafdi
- Thread starter bidenkulaha
- Start date
What happened to them coming to Sanaag? 
Woke history meets SL fantasy. Only 1 part was real the govt attacked SL not the clans. Plus the govt was protecting the state from her clan rebels backed by menguistu violating somalia sovereignity who started the conflict not siyad. In ethiopia just recently Abi Ahmed govt did the same to Tigray for their rebel activties but if siyad does that to SL, why different standards? becuz his 'darod'? well that isn't consistent rule to judge govts on and make 'exceptions' 4 siyad to how every state will crack down on domestic terrorists and rebels over-riding the state authority.
As for her 5 Somalia argument. Djibouti didn't join Somalia and then 'secede' again by declaring it's own independence which would violate nation state UN rights. Plus she conveniently ignores SL willingly joined the union. Wat about Hobyo sultanate, Makhir, Majerteniya sultanates which were recognized by colonials and then stripped of their independence thru force.
Wat about if JL re-instates it's former british borders before being thrown forcefully into Somalia. What if Ogadens do that also to Ethiopia arguing a forced union that didn't consult them and they will restore british borders prior to Ethiopia. The Darods have a far stonger case then Isaaq when actually presented analyzed..
The other thing it's far easier to resolve a govt attack then a social attack. HAGS/SNM clans attacked and genocided darod civilians like their doing in las anod, the clans remain here but siyad doesnt, so her issues are debunked cuz siyad govt doesn't exist so your whole argument collapses on state greviances since ur issue isnt clan greviance.
But darod clan genocide argument still stands true becuz the clans still exist and there was no reconciliation which makes way for a bleak future. If SL/Hamar govts attacked us we wouldnt blame their clans and forgive n forget quickly once the govt is gone but clan genocide is hardest to resolve becuz those clans still exist
But darod clan genocide argument still stands true becuz the clans still exist and there was no reconciliation which makes way for a bleak future. If SL/Hamar govts attacked us we wouldnt blame their clans and forgive n forget quickly once the govt is gone but clan genocide is hardest to resolve becuz those clans still exist
It's funny her habar awal clan aspirations thru the force of gun is denying unionist their right like dhulbahante-warsangeli-awdal-garhajis. They used force on abdirahman tuur clan and still isolate them from power, they put militias into borama trying to strip their aspirations and they attempted with makhir/ssc but unsuccessful. Why is hargeisa.berbera clan aspirations greater then all the other clans in the north? she doesn't even test her logic looking like a clown.
How is a state founded thru violence going to escape violent collapse? will it buck global trends or even if it does how will it be productive member of the region or world when all those type of states are never productive due to the internal dynamics of fear that violence will bring it down.
How is a state founded thru violence going to escape violent collapse? will it buck global trends or even if it does how will it be productive member of the region or world when all those type of states are never productive due to the internal dynamics of fear that violence will bring it down.
She's Arap
In reality any system not addressing clan border system isn't addressing the civil war conditions, colonial borders wasn't our conflict, applying colonial borders won't solve our problems but may even trigger more conflicts.
Clan federalism is the only solution, the course is set, lets dicuss only within those parameters or if we use colonial parameters it isn't addressing our civil war and the on-ground clan realities. Im prepared to hear different versions of clan federalism but stay within those parameters as long as it addresss the CLAN FACTOR, colonials dont live here
Clan federalism is the only solution, the course is set, lets dicuss only within those parameters or if we use colonial parameters it isn't addressing our civil war and the on-ground clan realities. Im prepared to hear different versions of clan federalism but stay within those parameters as long as it addresss the CLAN FACTOR, colonials dont live here
bidenkulaha
GalYare
PL has a clan border with SL and Galmudug. You don’t claim all of Sanaag+Sool and Mudug.
I agree tho that this needs to be addressed
@The Midlands
Wallahi runta iyo xaqiqda dalka taal in layska indho tiro oo gumaysi borders laga hadlo is crazy, the colonials dont live here , they werent apart of our clan wars, they dont have any role whatsoever locally, do we create a solution for foreigners or locals? im prepared to hear different types of clan federalism but when it deflects to non reality and ignoring clan realities that only means were not genuine or someone isnt genuine player 'ujeeda' kale ayaa meesha ku jira which isnt the local realities.
Somalis social system are clans and not colonial identies, if it was then I wud entertain colonial solutions. Plus our state collapse was fuelled by 'clan' not 'colonial identities' seeking power. So the dimensions is 'power' and 'clan'. Yes colonial played a role in how we see 'state n power' and that legacy is still there 'centralised authorities' so that's why I believe federalism addresses our 'power' motives while addressing our social identities 'clans'.
bidenkulaha
GalYare
Imo PL should respect the 18 gobols. It’s valid to say Sanaag+Sool if they wanted and there was agreement with all clans that live there should be about to create a FMS (but that isn’t the case as Isaaq don’t want this). And on Mudug, there should not be north or south mudug in a post conflict and a settled Somalia
We have to cancel out those 18 states which is a colonial legacy and siyad barre and carve borders in relation to clan realities, those states do not have any social allegiance or identity so it's irrelevant. Gobolo identity layskuma dilin
bidenkulaha
GalYare
You say you are against clan borders but then go onto say you want to create better clan borders
GaradShabeel
VIP
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In all honesty, I have a hard time seeing the status quo changing in Mudug, and it's probably best to keep the current borders. And obviously a demarcation.
Regarding Sool and Sanaag; why are they dependent on the Isaaqs living there? Since they are hellbent on leaving the union, SSC have a more legitimate case for their own state.
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I said im willing to discuss any model that is within the federal context
1. Power since we didn't kill each other for the love of clan but over 'power' due to highly centralized legacy left behind colonials. Our understanding of state n power till today is colonial inspired not locally inspired.
2. Addresses our social identities and where people allegiance are. If it was the 18 states I wud say fine, if it was colonial I wud say fine, but we know it isn't and we try to deny the local realities crafting systems that are intended for foreigners not locals.
3. Addresses all identified issues of the civil war such as colonial legacy of how we see state n power, clan identities, power motivations(fighting for 1 seat constantly), carving the most locally inspired system as possible not carving systems from abroad unless it's finely tuned to local realities.
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bidenkulaha
GalYare
Yet to see what this SSC would look like, what deegaans and degmos it would include.
Everyone who tries just strikes a line between where Dhulo and Isaaq towns are as if this is realistic. Not including near half of Sanaag and sool.
GaradShabeel
VIP
What about the PL-GM border tho? Why is it unrealistic with a such a border, when we already (de-facto) have one?
PL Isn't seeking GM ppl land nor is Dhulos/Warsan seeking Isaaq land. PL doesn't believe it's wise to pursue 'force' and disregarding other clan aspirations, it's simply not long-term solution. Isaaq iyo Hawiye gumaysigooda dooni mayno lakin kama yeelayno inay anaga na gumaystan. We do not seek colonialize other clans but we will not accept that from them either. Can't we discuss how to co exist and progress like the rest of the world. Its fuckin madness what somalis do, qabil oo qabil kale gumaysan karo ma jiro. We will not accept gumaysi from SFG either or any entity.
bidenkulaha
GalYare
Because PL knew it had no chance of defeating Sacad in mudug. Eventually had to accept Galmudug despite thinking they’d settled this with Garowe1+2 two gobol restriction on FMS’s. Isaaq are well aware they can enforce their border, even if it takes a while. So it’s not realistic.What about the PL-GM border tho? Why is it unrealistic with a such a border, when we already (de-facto) have one?
U dummy we broke whole USC in 92 when they snuck in at nite killing civilians notice u cant fight soldiers like isaaq is doing attacking las anod not fighting dhulos. USC did the same in G-town.
U live in fear of us and trying to prove urself constantly proves it. U did the same today using SNA HAGS and GM to free yourself and u did the same in galkayo in 92. We could capture everything to beletwayn river is the reality becuz thats how colonials saw somalia, anything below beletwayn is theres and anything above majerteniya/hobyo why? 70% from beletwayn too bari is our clan and they couldnt deny the reality on ground just like u cant.
Listen we dont want to add to somali conflict and remain in defensive posture only u shouldnt fear us bro, we dont want to add fire to an already fire in the nation, we took that policy since 91.
