Iraqis were asked “country with most beautiful people/country u wanna visit “. Both answers show both mental slavery plus Stockholm syndrome

I've literally never encountered a light-skin Iranian; on the other hand I've met quite a few Lebanese with light-skin and blue eyes.
 

Apollo

Staff Member
That reminded me of a peculiar fact, there is even a significant population of Gypsies in Sudan:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people_in_Sudan

Another anecdote.

Recently I came across an Iranian named David (weird name for an Iranian, with that spelling) and he looked like a carbon copy of a Bukhara Jew (Uzbek origin) I knew.

Didn't ask for ethnicity, but almost certain it was an Iranian Jew. 😄

MENA minorities are peculiar/interesting people. :hmm:
 
Another anecdote.

Recently I came across an Iranian named David (weird name for an Iranian, with that spelling) and he looked like a carbon copy of a Bukhara Jew (Uzbek origin) I knew.

Didn't ask for ethnicity, but almost certain it was an Iranian Jew. 😄

MENA minorities are peculiar/interesting people. :hmm:
Again, about another peculiarity. Years ago, I met this chick from that area. She was very beautiful, but she believed in a religion where shaitan was the good guy and started to talk about him favorably. I had to keep my distance.
 

Apollo

Staff Member
Again, about another peculiarity. Years ago, I met this chick from that area. She was very beautiful, but she believed in a religion where shaitan was the good guy and started to talk about him favorably. I had to keep my distance.

Zoroastrian?

Only heard/read about them, never seen one in real life yet.

Once met Hazara Afghan who was into Buddhism, but claimed to be still a Muslim and told me Buddhism is not a religion but a philosophy. He has the Buddhas of Bamiyan as his facebook banner and I saw a bunch of travel pictures of him in Tibetan temples as a tourist and he is really into Asiatic cultural stuff, but I read Hazaras are generally weird culturally compared to all other Afghans due to Shia oppression they face. Oppressed groups tend to be more liberal, maybe that explains his interest in Buddhism/Asian cultural orientation.
 
Zoroastrian?

Only heard/read about them, never seen one in real life yet.

Once met Hazara Afghan who was into Buddhism, but claimed to be still a Muslim and told me Buddhism is not a religion but a philosophy. He has the Buddhas of Bamiyan as his facebook banner and I saw a bunch of travel pictures of him in Tibetan temples as a tourist and he is really into Asiatic cultural stuff, but I read Hazaras are generally weird culturally compared to all other Afghans due to Shia oppression they face. Oppressed groups tend to be more liberal, maybe that explains his interest in Buddhism/Asian cultural orientation.
I have no idea what group she belonged to specifically.

Usually, Afghans are pretty conservative and stick to Islam, never heard of a Buddhist one before. But then again, I know a couple of Afghans whose fathers buy alcohol or don't mind their kids drinking. And there are some that are culturally Muslim, good people but not so religious. But the majority of them are on the conservative religious side, especially in terms of culture. Completely different from Iranians.
 

Shimbiris

بىَر كَىَل إيه عآنه له
VIP
At most, some Iranians look pale, with a clear MENA phenotype. You won't confuse it for real Europeans. Sure, they might have some real Indo-European influence but I don't think that translates well to phenotype for the most part. Some very outliers can be confused for southern European-like at most. But that anomaly segment can apply to those Lebanese too, you know. I'm not saying any of them look White though, most Lebanese look like they come from the area they come from, and that's it really, lol.

By the way, I thought Iranians, an internally not so homogenous population with regional differences I might add, can have frequencies that are of South Asian origin, IIRC.

As someone who grew up around Iranians with two among my closest friends growing up whom I know to this day being Iranians I'll say that you are right in that you can always see they have MENA-Mediterranean leaning facial features even when pale.

All Iranians have about 10-25% or so Middle to Late Bronze-Age steppe ancestry (Sintashta and Andronovo culture types) who at this stage of the steppe's history were basically genetically and phenotypically Lithuanianoids with more of an eastern/northern shift than even Lithuanians. They were basally a mix between the earlier, swarthier Yamnaya steppe herders, Anatolian farmers in Europe and native Euro HGs.

These guys were essentially the Turkic nomads of their day with even their material culture and customs as well their genetics in large part being passed down quite strongly to modern Central Asian Turks like Kazakhs. Similarly to Turks, they basically encroached upon and installed themselves as elites among farmers and slowly but surely their language, mythology and some of their customs got grafted onto the civilizations of the farmer groups. But what one must grasp about Indo-Iranian admixture into Iran is that these guys first passed by the BMAC culture (AKA the Oxus Civilization):

260px-Indo-Iranian_origins.png



Oxuns were basically majority Iranian-Neolithic in descent and, as far as I remember, the Indo-Iranians who came into the Iranian plateau would have already been heavily mixed with BMAC farmers and thus already been pretty brownified in appearance and genetics when they came into Iran. That area is very important for Iranic culture. General area of around Greater Khorasan and Transoxiana:


330px-Chorasan-Transoxanien-Choresmien_neu.svg.png




Zoroastrianism comes from that general area and it's an overall early cradle for Iranic culture that was slowly subsumed by Turkics to create a later Turko-Persian culture. I didn't learn this from my Iranian friends from my childhood, though. This is a byproduct of being in a years long skype group with Iranian anthropology buffs who educated me profusely on Indo-Iranian culture, history and genetics but I admit I have not brushed up much on new developments over the last couple of years.
 
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As someone who grew up around Iranians with two among my closest friends growing up whom I know to this day being Iranians I'll say that you are right in that you can always see they have MENA-Mediterranean leaning facial features even when pale.

All Iranians have about 10-25% or so Middle to Late Bronze-Age steppe ancestry (Sintashta and Andronovo culture types) who at this stage of the steppe's history were basically genetically and phenotypically Lithuanianoids with more of an eastern/northern shift than even Lithuanians. They were basally a mix between the earlier, swarthier Yamnaya steppe herders, Anatolian farmers in Europe and native Euro HGs.

These guys were essentially the Turkic nomads of their day with even their material culture and customs as well their genetics in large part being passed down quite strongly to modern Central Asian Turks like Kazakhs. Similarly to Turks, they basically encroached upon and installed themselves as elites among farmers and slowly but surely their language, mythology and some of their customs got grafted onto the civilizations of the farmer groups. But what one must grasp about Indo-Iranian admixture into Iran is that these guys first passed by the BMAC culture (AKA the Oxus Civilization):

View attachment 208347


Oxuns were basically majority Iranian-Neolithic in descent and, as far as I remember, the Indo-Iranians who came into the Iranian plateau would have already been heavily mixed with BMAC farmers and thus already been pretty brownified in appearance and genetics when they came into Iran. That area is very important for Iranic culture. General area of around Greater Khorasan and Transoxiana:


View attachment 208348



Zoroastrianism comes from that general area and it's an overall early cradle for Iranic culture that was slowly subsumed by Turkics to create a later Turko-Persian culture. I didn't learn this from my Iranian friends from my childhood, though. This is a byproduct of being in a years long skype group with Iranian anthropology buffs who educated me profusely on Indo-Iranian culture, history and genetics but I admit I have not brushed up much on new developments over the last couple of years.
That's a good breakdown. Thanks, man. Not long ago, I watched this epic documentary about ancient Persian history:


I've newly heard that the CHG in Yamnaya was possibly from the Volga area. They probably migrated from the Caucasus to the steppe and mixed with EHG coming down from the Volga. I think Yamnaya are fascinating because their ancestry derives from ANE and CHG, very distinct populations (granted that the typical distinct HGs of those early days were very differentiated), that ultimately trace their lineages from distant geographic areas, all the way in Siberia for ANE. And there is this rowdy element to these Yamanyas how they dominated farming communities, somehow killed the males or expelled them and took the women creating these strange haplogroup asymmetries.
 
Trust me they are.

Lebanese dress more like Westerners, making you think they are closer to Europeans.

But Iranians are whiter when it comes to genetics because they are A) of Indo-European descent (linked to Russians/Slavs) B) have much less African ancestry than the Lebanese.

The Lebanese are something like 7-9% African in their ancestry, Iranians 0-1%.

Much more Lebanese people have curly hair than Iranians.

I don't think it's that simple ; I've for instance met many quadroon cubans who looked fully white/iberian. Iranians in general are pretty diverse many do look somewhat south asian while others overlap more with middle easterners especially kurds, turks, armenians, azeris, etc

I honestly wouldn't say they are lighter than levantines, they are overall in the same range even though have many people who are quite dark. Their steppe ancestry isn't that high actually something like 18-20%.
 

Apollo

Staff Member
I don't think it's that simple ; I've for instance met many quadroon cubans who looked fully white/iberian. Iranians in general are pretty diverse many do look somewhat south asian while others overlap more with middle easterners especially kurds, turks, armenians, azeris, etc

I honestly wouldn't say they are lighter than levantines, they are overall in the same range even though have many people who are quite dark. Their steppe ancestry isn't that high actually something like 18-20%.

Are you American by any chance? I have noticed that Americans have this perception that Levantine Arabs are much whiter than they actually are.

Lately Europe has been flooded with Syrian Arabs (remember Syria is to the north of Lebanon) and I have seen a ton of them, they don't strike me as very white.
 

If the photographer is correct, seems like they've heavily mixed
I think they resemble the Roma from Egypt with Sudanese influence.

These people originally came from a population that had higher indigenous South Asian ancestry from the northwestern region, a high likelihood they belonged to a lower caste. I wonder if these guys carry some of the same bottlenecks as the European gypsies before they spread into Europe proper.

There is a chance they split from this group: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domba
 
Are you American by any chance? I have noticed that Americans have this perception that Levantine Arabs are much whiter than they actually are.

Lately Europe has been flooded with Syrian Arabs (remember Syria is to the north of Lebanon) and I have seen a ton of them, they don't strike me as very white.
No I'm from Europe actually and I never implied levantines were that white. The levantines I've met look like your regular "arab" and their christian minorities seem to be actually even darker than their muslim counterparts (which makes sense when we look at their genetic profiles).
 
Not saying they are white or even white-ish, most people clearly notice they are similar to even Arabs (American rednecks/republitards think they even speak Arabic), but if we were to compare the two the Lebanese vs ethnic Iranians, then the objective answer on who is ''whiter'' must be Iranians.

Only reason why this confusion exists is because the Lebanese appear more Western due to the Christian influence culturally and dress style.

The whole Lebanese are 'whiter' is more of a stereotype. They look no different to their other Shami neighbors like the Jordanians, Palestines and Syrians. In fact, i've seen more ginger and light coloured eyed Syrians than Lebanese. Also, the Lebanese dress more Western, go out of their way to look more Western as the women dye their hair blonde and its also the plastic surgery capital of the ME.
 

Gokboru

Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.
You think Somalis are any better?
Ask the same question to a Somali
They will say “ Timaha hindida leh “ u cad sidii carab oo kale

we associatie beauty with fair skin and straight hair
 
I knew the pro-blacknimo was just a cope :pachah1:

Well, if you grew up in the West it's reasonable to infer that you would subscribe (at least to some extent) to Western conceptualisations of attractiveness. People underestimate the power of propaganda and popular culture.

Even before the advent of Western colonialism, certain groups already greatly valued light skin, so Europeans were already in prime position to benefit from that.

When our God-forsaken continent eventually pulls itself out of this unenviable position... it will obviously have to create and impose its own conceptualisations of attractiveness -- and Westerners won't be part of that.
 

Apollo

Staff Member
Well, if you grew up in the West it's reasonable to infer that you would subscribe (at least to some extent) to Western conceptualisations of attractiveness. People underestimate the power of propaganda and popular culture.

Even before the advent of Western colonialism, certain groups already greatly valued light skin, so Europeans were already in prime position to benefit from that.

When our God-forsaken continent eventually pulls itself out of this unenviable position... it will obviously have to create and impose its own conceptualisations of attractiveness -- and Westerners won't be part of that.

If West Africans colonized the Americas and used West European slaves and the West African colonizers had a one drop rule against Euro blood protecting their purity and they somehow became the global super power, then today we would have the opposite phenomena.

Those Iraqis would say: ''Congo very beautiful, very black, women big ass, very nice''..

st,small,507x507-pad,600x600,f8f8f8.jpg
 

Shimbiris

بىَر كَىَل إيه عآنه له
VIP
If West Africans colonized the Americas and used West European slaves and the West African colonizers had a one drop rule against Euro blood protecting their purity and they somehow become the global super power, then today we would have the opposite phenomena.

Those Iraqis would say: ''Congo very beautiful, very black, women big ass, good''..

st,small,507x507-pad,600x600,f8f8f8.jpg

Cut to a barely aged looking, old Yoruba lady doing a year long tour across her Common Wealth nations and pictures of starving European children being a global meme.
 
If West Africans colonized the Americas and used West European slaves and the West African colonizers had a one drop rule against Euro blood protecting their purity and they somehow became the global super power, then today we would have the opposite phenomena.

Those Iraqis would say: ''Congo very beautiful, very black, women big ass, very nice''..

st,small,507x507-pad,600x600,f8f8f8.jpg

Cut to a barely aged looking, old Yoruba lady doing a year long tour across her Common Wealth nations and pictures of starving European children being a global meme.

:browtf: sounds exactly like the script of an alternative history book called Lion's Blood that I wanted to read, but was let down by strong "We wuz..." vibes.
Img_2021_12_06_10_58_42.jpeg

Major Events in LION’S BLOOD Alternate Chronology



400 B.C. Socrates leaves Athens for Egypt.

323 B.C. A wounded Alexander has visions of completing his life as a pharaoh.

200 B.C. Egypt and Carthage defeat Rome.

A.D. 623 Treaty of Khibar: Muhammad approves a nonaggression mutual assistance pact with the Jews. Establishment of Judea follows.

632 Death of Muhammad.

650 Bilal rescues Muhammad's family at Karbala.

701 "Black Barges on the Nile"—germ warfare against the royal house of Egypt. Establishment of Fatimite Caliphate.

1000 Discovery of the New World.

1100 Fatimite Caliphate trading with Aztec/Toltec Empires.

1700 Colonization of Bilalistan.

1863 Lion's Blood begins.
Dar Kush, New Djibouti sounds like a great place to live tho
Img_2021_12_06_10_45_29.jpeg
Img_2021_12_06_10_45_19.jpeg

Would be a solid pick for the first sspot book club :patrice:
 

Shimbiris

بىَر كَىَل إيه عآنه له
VIP
:browtf: sounds exactly like the script of an alternative history book called Lion's Blood that I wanted to read, but was let down by strong "We wuz..." vibes.
View attachment 208440

Dar Kush, New Djibouti sounds like a great place to live tho
View attachment 208441 View attachment 208442
Would be a solid pick for the first sspot book club :patrice:

Why these West-Central Afro descended saxiibs keep involving us, Swahilis and Masris, doe? It smells of coonery, wallahi. They admire East Africa cos it was more hyped up by Europeans to undermine them. New Jabuuti iyo Azania kulaha. Call that shit New Mali and Nok or something.
 
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