I do not believe we have Natufian DNA

[MarcusAbdul]

@The alchemist @Shimbiris
You're both knowledgeable abtis, what do you think about it? As well as how old do you think when Cushites split? Thank you

 

[niggaibnh]

Hello everyone. As the title states, I do not believe we have Eurasian DNA. I'm not an Afrocentricist. I just find the following weird:

1. The paternal lineage of the Natufians are not related to Cushitic speaking groups. It's E3B yes, but it's e1b1b1b or e1b1b undifferentiated or e1b1 undifferentiated. They don't have E-V32 (e1b1b1a1a1b), E-V12 or e1b1b1a. So how can they be our ancestors?

2. The Natufians only act as a best representation of a component of autosomal DNA Somalis and other Cushites have currently. This is due to available genetic material from archeology. If an archeological study of e1b1b1a representatives from Northeastern Africa were available, those components would fit better. So why should we accept Natufians being our supposed Eurasian ancestors, when they're just the best fit right now?

3. E1b1b1a seems to be found more commonly in Egypt and Libya. Also, that region seems to be a launching point for other descendents of that lineage. Cushites seem to have a particular one, which is from E-V12 going to E-V32 (the common Cushites paternal marker). So, why don't we simply conclude that a back migration from North Africa to East Africa occurred, and then a moment of intermixing with indigenous East African people, which formed the Cushitic speaking people today?

Just wondering if anyone else has any information that can justify why we should take a connection with the Natufians seriously.

100% we got eursian other wise it wouldn’t make sense
Those genes we got is the same for Berber, Egyptians etc it’s eursian nigga that entered africa

 

[MarcusAbdul]

100% we got eursian other wise it wouldn’t make sense
Those genes we got is the same for Berber, Egyptians etc it’s eursian nigga that entered africa

Plus, most "Sub Saharans" have no or very little Eurasian it is only Horners, Sudanese people and people in the Sahel/Sahara.
Who are all in close proximity to North Africa and therefore indirect contact with Eurasia. Eurasian migrations are as old as at least more than 15,000 years with the Iberomarusians who have Maternal Eurasian and Paternal ANA (Ancestral North African).
We don't have direct Natufian ancestors, instead as people said before it is a Natufian-like people who resided in Egypt/North Africa.

He is right in a way, our ancestors aren't Eurasian proper but even so it is still Eurasian through an intermediate source (North Africans). To be more accurate, it was a back migration of North Africans of mostly West Eurasian origin mixing with native East Africans forming cushites.

 

[MarcusAbdul]

The thing is, the conclusion I'm drawing showcases a different historical situation.

Firstly, horners do not act as an intermediate between West Africans/Nilo-saharan people and Eurasians.

Instead, a cluster of groups are classified as sub-saharan African and another cluster of groups are classified as Eurasians and Somalis are compared between the two groups. All this means is that people from the Levant and North Africa act as an intermediate between what is classified as Sub-saharan African and Eurasian. But if taken as distinct groups, the diversity in Africa would result in distances being further apart amongst different clusters of African groups. I.e., Niger-congo speakers being distinct from indigenous East African hunter gatherers being distinct from Nilo-saharan speakers being distinct from indigenous South East African hunter gatherers, etc.

Similarly, there would be distances seen among Eurasian groups as well, but they wouldn't be as distant as African groups due to the sole reason that non-Africans are younger as a whole so the diversity on a genetic level isn't that high in comparison.

Now I ask you:
Is the distant we Somalis (and other horners as an extension) have against West Africans a representation of our closeness to Eurasians or our distance from other Africans because of how long the human activity in the continent was?

I think it's both to a degree, but I believe the latter is at a higher degree.

1. West Africans/Nilo-Saharan's are said to have diverged from each other about 28,000 years ago which is why they are genetically close to each other on PCAs.

2. If you agree there was a back migration from North Africa, then you would also have to agree those North Africans were of mostly Eurasian origin. It was an indirect Eurasian back migration.

We aren't geneticists or scholars, we are simply layman, but every geneticist in the field agrees on indirect Eurasian ancestry coming from a Natufian-like population.
Sxb, there are people who have been alive far longer than anyone here and have been researching this for a very long time.

 

[MarcusAbdul]

Nah our Eurasian ancestry is simple. Vast majority is derived from Anatolian hunter gatherer. It’s these hunters that gave birth to the west Euroasian ancestry found in Taforalt and Natufian.

Ah, jazakallah Sxb

 

[Himmler]

Yes you are correct, the Natufians are not o direct ancestors for a multitude of reasons not limited to the ones you mentioned.

In reality, the Natufians have significant amounts of North East African ancestry and right now there are no good proxies for this population, the Natufians are currently among the best

 

[Garaad Awal]

Neolithic Levantine + ANA + minor Neolithic Iranian (from our Arabian ancestry).That basiclly sums up our West Eurasian & North African ancestry

 

[Step a side]

Neolithic Levantine + ANA + minor Neolithic Iranian (from our Arabian ancestry).That basiclly sums up our West Eurasian & North African ancestry

We don’t have Anatolian ancestry so I doubt it’s Neolithic Levantine that we have.

 

[Himmler]

We don’t have Anatolian ancestry so I doubt it’s Neolithic Levantine that we have.

We have Anatolian ancestry via Neolithic Levantine and Aegean farmers settling in North Africa.

 

[Step a side]

We have Anatolian ancestry via Neolithic Levantine and Aegean farmers settling in North Africa.

When we use Natufian and Levant Neolithic as reference, you will notice that all our ancestry is Natufian instead of Barcin enriched Neolithic levantines. Unlike Saudis, Egyptians, Tunisians etc we don’t have Anatolian ancestry at all.

 

[Revolutionarry]

This has been proven to be the case, sorry buddy.