How poor are somalis relative to africans 🤔

[novanova]

Guys I looked up average salaries in some african countries and hmmmm .. somalis are often perceived as extremely poor due to state collapse and conflict, but relative to other Africans, especially on individual income and access to global capital, Somalis are not the poorest. In fact, they seem to outperform many countries in several economic metrics.

According to Chatgpt:

Country	Avg Monthly Salary (USD)
Egypt	$125–$200
Kenya	$150–$300
Nigeria	$150–$400
Ghana	$180–$350
Ivory Coast	$250–$350
Tanzania	$120–$250
Senegal	$180–$300
Ethiopia	$80–$120
Somalia	$200–$300
Sudan	$60–$100
DR Congo	$50–$80
Zambia	$150–$250
Rwanda	$120–$180
Uganda	$100–$200
Cameroon	$120–$200
Mozambique	$80–$150
Zimbabwe	$70–$120

 

[Idilinaa]

Let's put the speculative numbers aside for a sec. What ever you see listed out there is either outdated or under-reported.

I think the biggest reality check is seeing the large internal revenue circulation(like the recorded monthly mobile transactions), the lack of slums, the lack of large beggar population and the lack of wide spread scams and fraud , theft and rarity of general crime.

Real poverty reflects widespread desperation behavior.

These are all really good observable indicators that the average Somali in Somalia are earning enough to support basic living. That's what sets it apart from a lot of African countries

Then another set of observable examples is really the purchasing power, there are so many businesses , shops that operational. private transport and the private sector is functional there is a visible consumer economy, since every service is private payment based you need to have money to use it. You can't have 80% urban electrician rate, 61% nationwide and 77.7% access to water and 86% internet/broadband mobile access and be broke with no money.

The extensive inventory and imports also suggests purchasing power as well. These are powerful, visible signs of broad based economic functionality, especially in a society where government welfare is nearly non-existent.

If people can survive and thrive without state support, it means they are economically active, and wealth is more evenly distributed through private enterprise and family/community systems.

Sooner or later the numbers publicly available will catch up with the realities on the ground.

 

[Rayaale]

As a person who’s travelled extensively in East and Southern Africa, I can say Somalis are not poor people but have bigger dreams and aspirations, the average African is satisfied with a simple job as long as he/she can get food and shelter while a Somali will try to push for a better future

 

[TheLand]

Guys I looked up average salaries in some african countries and hmmmm .. somalis are often perceived as extremely poor due to state collapse and conflict, but relative to other Africans, especially on individual income and access to global capital, Somalis are not the poorest. In fact, they seem to outperform many countries in several economic metrics.

According to Chatgpt:

Country	Avg Monthly Salary (USD)
Egypt	$125–$200
Kenya	$150–$300
Nigeria	$150–$400
Ghana	$180–$350
Ivory Coast	$250–$350
Tanzania	$120–$250
Senegal	$180–$300
Ethiopia	$80–$120
Somalia	$200–$300
Sudan	$60–$100
DR Congo	$50–$80
Zambia	$150–$250
Rwanda	$120–$180
Uganda	$100–$200
Cameroon	$120–$200
Mozambique	$80–$150
Zimbabwe	$70–$120

Those ranges are so wide that they are basically meaningless for comparison imo. Also, I think Somalis are different from most Africans whether black or otherwise in that there doesn’t seem to be as wide a wealth disparity within-group. That’s the real difference imo. You won’t see Somalis living in literal garbage dumps or filth regardless of the situation for the past 30 years but you will see that in almost all African countries.

 

[cunug3aad]

Those ranges are so wide that they are basically meaningless for comparison imo. Also, I think Somalis are different from most Africans whether black or otherwise in that there doesn’t seem to be as wide a wealth disparity within-group. That’s the real difference imo. You won’t see Somalis living in literal garbage dumps or filth regardless of the situation for the past 30 years but you will see that in almost all African countries.

Interesting how somalia doesnt seem to have slums like other poor countries, the closest thing to it that i know of are those rag hut type houses poor people/farmers use (but those are usually on their own) and refugee camps

 

[Sigmundd]

Somali diaspora aren't poor but they're not materliastic or flashy like others

 

[celidheere]

Somalis support each other materially so you have people who may be poor af using clan links to feed off of someone whether by nepotism or living in a house. Then wealthy Somalis will fight each other to support orphans and the like. People who should be poor af can live decently with nothing

 

[Idilinaa]

Somalis support each other materially so you have people who may be poor af using clan links to feed off of someone whether by nepotism or living in a house. Then wealthy Somalis will fight each other to support orphans and the like. People who should be poor af can live decently with nothing

Somalis support each other materially and communally, not through narrow nepotism, but through a broader web of mutual responsibility that crosses both regional and clan lines. If you’re Hawiye, you likely have family or social ties to Darood, Isaaq, Raxanweyn, Reer Xamar, etc. These networks are not closed loops , they’re interdependent and expansive. In fact, Somalis are known to help even non-Somalis without hesitation.

If one Somali makes a million dollars, it doesn’t stay in one pocket , it circulates through the community. That’s why, even in poorer areas, many people live relatively decently. It’s not that wealth is perfectly distributed, but that wealth is shared far more than in many other societies. That’s a huge reason poverty doesn’t always look the same in Somali communities.

In a lot of African countries, the issue isn’t just lack of economic activity, it’s that a tiny elite monopolizes all the wealth and everyone else is shut out. Same with the West. In places like the U.S., you see homelessness and extreme poverty , not due to lack of resources, but because wealth inequality has destroyed social safety nets.

@Sigmundd pointed out that the Somali diaspora tends not to be flashy or materialistic. I’d extend that to Somalis back home too. They aren’t interested in wasteful consumerism , they preserve and reinvest wealth. And that shows in the way our private sector continues to function even without external aid or government support.

This is something another African writer captured well in an old article I’ve referenced before:

Two things that stick out to me is that he said. About the wealthy Somali driving a broken car ''II have a Somali friend, who is one of the richest people in Uganda, but he drives a ramshackle car whose door often flies off when he hits a pothole."

The last part . How deeply connected Somalis remain, no matter where they live. ''The Somali in the Diaspora, those back in Africa, and the rich and poor ones keep a level of contact alien to most other Africans" which is something i have spoken about a great detail.

The connection between rich and poor also shows how there isn't a rigid class divide amongst Somalis. Those things aren’t quirks , they’re systemic traits that define Somali economic culture.

 

[The truth seeker]

Somalis support each other materially and communally, not through narrow nepotism, but through a broader web of mutual responsibility that crosses both regional and clan lines. If you’re Hawiye, you likely have family or social ties to Darood, Isaaq, Raxanweyn, Reer Xamar, etc. These networks are not closed loops , they’re interdependent and expansive. In fact, Somalis are known to help even non-Somalis without hesitation.

If one Somali makes a million dollars, it doesn’t stay in one pocket , it circulates through the community. That’s why, even in poorer areas, many people live relatively decently. It’s not that wealth is perfectly distributed, but that wealth is shared far more than in many other societies. That’s a huge reason poverty doesn’t always look the same in Somali communities.

In a lot of African countries, the issue isn’t just lack of economic activity, it’s that a tiny elite monopolizes all the wealth and everyone else is shut out. Same with the West. In places like the U.S., you see homelessness and extreme poverty , not due to lack of resources, but because wealth inequality has destroyed social safety nets.

@Sigmundd pointed out that the Somali diaspora tends not to be flashy or materialistic. I’d extend that to Somalis back home too. They aren’t interested in wasteful consumerism , they preserve and reinvest wealth. And that shows in the way our private sector continues to function even without external aid or government support.

This is something another African writer captured well in an old article I’ve referenced before:
View attachment 361738
View attachment 361739

Two things that stick out to me is that he said. About the wealthy Somali driving a broken car ''II have a Somali friend, who is one of the richest people in Uganda, but he drives a ramshackle car whose door often flies off when he hits a pothole."

The last part . How deeply connected Somalis remain, no matter where they live. ''The Somali in the Diaspora, those back in Africa, and the rich and poor ones keep a level of contact alien to most other Africans" which is something i have spoken about a great detail.

The connection between rich and poor also shows how there isn't a rigid class divide amongst Somalis. Those things aren’t quirks , they’re systemic traits that define Somali economic culture.

Poverty in the west and in a place like Kenya’ is completely different you can’t compare

In the west you get free housing ,free school , and free food , and job training programs

In places like Austin there are city officials that are working on addressing homelessness and have made significant progress

In Kenya you will die on the street and nobody will care I remember there were guys who majored in computer science but was driving a taxi it’s honestly sad

 

[Idilinaa]

Poverty in the west and in a place like Kenya’ is completely different you can’t compare

In the west you get free housing ,free school , and free food , and job training programs

In places like Austin there are city officials that are working on addressing homelessness and have made significant progress

In Kenya you will die on the street and nobody will care I remember there were guys who majored in computer science but was driving a taxi it’s honestly sad

You are right . In the US they have better public social service delivery , better social safety nets and governmental support. I didn't mean to compare the two realities as if they were the same.

Homelesness in America is usually link to lack of affordable housing. So it makes sense that Austin dealt with it based on that article you shared in the other thread.

But it still remains a persistent issue across America, especially in the major cities Homelessness should not exist in the richest country on earth , at all. It's shameful.

 

[Kisame]

Let's put the speculative numbers aside for a sec. What ever you see listed out there is either outdated or under-reported.

I think the biggest reality check is seeing the large internal revenue circulation(like the recorded monthly mobile transactions), the lack of slums, the lack of large beggar population and the lack of wide spread scams and fraud , theft and rarity of general crime.

Real poverty reflects widespread desperation behavior.

These are all really good observable indicators that the average Somali in Somalia are earning enough to support basic living. That's what sets it apart from a lot of African countries

Then another set of observable examples is really the purchasing power, there are so many businesses , shops that operational. private transport and the private sector is functional there is a visible consumer economy, since every service is private payment based you need to have money to use it. You can't have 80% urban electrician rate, 61% nationwide and 77.7% access to water and 86% internet/broadband mobile access and be broke with no money.

The extensive inventory and imports also suggests purchasing power as well. These are powerful, visible signs of broad based economic functionality, especially in a society where government welfare is nearly non-existent.

If people can survive and thrive without state support, it means they are economically active, and wealth is more evenly distributed through private enterprise and family/community systems.

Sooner or later the numbers publicly available will catch up with the realities on the ground.

Would the idp camps be the closest thing we got to slums back home?

The future is looking bleak for the folks stuck in those camps.

 

[Zak12]

Would the idp camps be the closest thing we got to slums back home?

The future is looking bleak for the folks stuck in those camps.

No because IDP camps are for those who were displaced from their actual homes. Its a temporary measure. Millions of Ukrainians are also in refugee camps but it doesn't mean those are slums or homes.

Meanwhile actual slums are a result of a congestion of shanty towns that people settle into, often due to poverty and lack of planning, not conflict. There is a key difference there. In Somalia people are forced to move into camps due to war or famine whereas slums in Africa are made due to poor economy situations.

 

[Unicorn]

Somalis support each other materially so you have people who may be poor af using clan links to feed off of someone whether by nepotism or living in a house. Then wealthy Somalis will fight each other to support orphans and the like. People who should be poor af can live decently with nothing

True. Thts why u barely see a lot of homelessness in somalia. There are beggers but they usually have a relative to stay with. Somalis are one of the few groups to not let their distant relatives go hungry or without a home.

 

[Lightshow]

This is exactly what most do not understand about Somalia and Somalis. We are an internally focused people with a growth mindset. Couple that with the tendency to not pander to Western (ie white) approval, sets us apart.

Somali GDP cannot be understood by the west because it fundamentally does not involve them. The only thing the west can control is to tear down our image on their media outlets and set other Africans against us.

But Inshaa Allah there will come a time that our momentum grows to such a level, that they will not be able to control it.

 

[Lightshow]

Would the idp camps be the closest thing we got to slums back home?

The future is looking bleak for the folks stuck in those camps.

Many have and are returning back to Somalia.

 

[Idilinaa]

No because IDP camps are for those who were displaced from their actual homes. Its a temporary measure. Millions of Ukrainians are also in refugee camps but it doesn't mean those are slums or homes.

Meanwhile actual slums are a result of a congestion of shanty towns that people settle into, often due to poverty and lack of planning, not conflict. There is a key difference there. In Somalia people are forced to move into camps due to war or famine whereas slums in Africa are made due to poor economy situations.

Most IDP's in Somalia today aren't really displaced by drought or conflict, but actually displaced by climate disasters like flooding which basically destroyed their livelihood. The amount of people displaced by strictly drought in the last few years, the last time i checked is minimal like 6.000
That's because most Somali regions have mechanisms, supply chains, flexibility, and storage systems that help them manage dry seasons without everything being wiped out by floods.

The combination of two separate sudden environmental shocks is what hit the southern Somalis the hardest. Prior to this many of them were living successful self-sustaining lives.

Hunger/Poverty in Somalia isn’t due to a broken economy or systemic failure , it's mostly the result of sudden climate shocks displacing large rural populations.

It is not unique to Somalia. Even in America people are displaced by natural disasters, annually it's around 3 million.

More Than 3 Million Americans Were Displaced by a ‘Natural’ Disaster in the Past Year. How Can We Prepare for Our Climate Future?

To best prepare for disasters that are likely to increase in severity and frequency, policy solutions will need to originate from all corners of the governme…

www.urban.org

Extreme Weather in U.S. Displaced 2.5 Million People Last Year

The Census Bureau found that among nearly 2.5 million people displaced last year in the U.S. by tornadoes, wildfires and hurricanes, socially vulnerable groups were more strongly represented

www.scientificamerican.com

It costs America more than 150 billion dollars annually, now imagine the scale of destruction for a country like Somalia with far fewer resources.

Globally that number is 26 million, where floods and storms are the highest cause of displacement.

Disasters Displaced More Than 26 Million People in 2023

Floods, wildfires, droughts and earthquakes forced more than 26 million people to leave their homes in 2023

www.scientificamerican.com

In Somalia’s case, floods have wiped out entire districts, housing, roads, farmland, livestock, and businesses and causing millions in losses. Displacing over 2 million people in the process.

Would the idp camps be the closest thing we got to slums back home?

The future is looking bleak for the folks stuck in those camps.

Like @Zak12 explained the camps are mostly a temporary measure they are building housing for them.

The Hormuud Salaam Foundation recently pledged land worth $7 million to permanently resettle 10,000 displaced families , potentially impacting over 400,000 people:

Hormuud - Prepaid | Anfac | Anfac Plus, Internet, Broadband, FTH, Evc Plus

Hormuud - is the leading telecommunications provider in Somalia. Founded in Mogadishu, for the last 20 years we have provided Somalis at home and abroad with reliable internet, calls, and mobile money services.

hormuud.com

In Geneva, co-hosted by the UN and Somalia’s ministry of planning, the CEO of Hormuud Salaam Foundation (HSF), Abdullahi Osman, unveiled a major initiative to tackle displacement in Somalia. Osman announced the donation of land valued at $7 million for the permanent resettlement of 10,000 families displaced by conflict, environmental degradation, and climate change.

The pledge, made as part of Somalia's National Solutions Pathways Action Plan, targets establishing a sustainable living environment for internally displaced persons (IDPs) in Jazeera, south of the capital Mogadishu. Osman added that the lack of stable settlements has been a persistent challenging issue for aid organizations have struggled to find permanent places for IDPs to settle and rebuild their lives

The country has experienced a surge in displacement, with over two million people moved by natural disasters in 2023 alone.
The initiative could significantly alter the lives of the IDPs, offering them stability in an area housing more than 400,000 displaced individuals.

This initiative is part of a broader national plan to provide stability and permanent housing for those displaced.

But to be honest what Somalia needs the most is sustainable flood control engineering solutions and infrastructure. Also a comprehensive climate disaster strategies.

 

[Idilinaa]

As a person who’s travelled extensively in East and Southern Africa, I can say Somalis are not poor people but have bigger dreams and aspirations, the average African is satisfied with a simple job as long as he/she can get food and shelter while a Somali will try to push for a better future

To come back to this, what you said was something many researchers noticed about Somalis, that they have a forward thinking mindset. This was echoed in what i shared in a separate thread, by those seed system orgs.

They were genuinely baffled by how Somalis are building vibrant, innovative agricultural seed companies even while being hit by disasters like the recent floods that i mentioned. It really speaks to the kind of entrepreneurial and resilient mindset Somalis have cultivated, despite the odds.

What’s important to highlight is that this kind of forward-thinking, self-starting spirit isn’t just exceptional in comparison to other African communities, it also stands out among many Muslim populations globally.

''This view , however does not explain alone why Somalis enter businesses and continue doing so when their basic needs are met, such as housing, education and health care. It is intrinsic to Somali culture and influenced by historical trade connections and relationships.

In contrast most Muslim entrepreneurship is driven by necessity(need) and they are more negatively associated with the rate of new business activity.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/342710392_Islam_institutions_and_entrepreneurship_evidence_from_Muslim_populations_across_nations

This is why when @The truth seeker seeker compared Somalia potential in oil wealth that it would lead to the oil dependency in Arab states, he didn't know that in places like Dubai and others the native local population are not the primary drivers of entrepreneurial activity. Most innovation and private sector growth there comes from foreign expats.

Meanwhile, in Somalia, even without oil wealth, locals are actively building industries from the ground up, across agriculture, energy, telecom, and logistics. That says a lot.