How do sub-clans/qabiils start?

[balanbalis]

Like for example I know Cisse and Gadabursi are both decended from Dir, but why are their lineages so relevant in Somali politics? Why can't I (hypothetically imagine i'm a man in this situation) just start my own sub-qabiil called Sharmarke Guleed? Do I need to have achievements or something to give me relevancy? Is it just based off having many kids?

 

[Neptune]

You don't start a subclan, you have children and they have children and so on. Your abtirsi doesn't end, it keeps going and eventually enough people will share a common ancestor that they'll identify with as a group.

 

[NidarNidar]

Like for example I know Cisse and Gadabursi are both decended from Dir, but why are their lineages so relevant in Somali politics? Why can't I (hypothetically imagine i'm a man in this situation) just start my own sub-qabiil called Sharmarke Guleed? Do I need to have achievements or something to give me relevancy? Is it just based off having many kids?

The more boys you have, the more successful you'll be. For example, when they say Samaroon is Gadabuursi, but not all Gadabuursi are Samaroon, it is due to clan dynamics in antiquity, due to war and famine, some branches were more successful, eventually trying to change the name of the clan, eventually it was changed back.

Most clans don't assimilate groups, but they are more fluid groups within the Somali identity.

 

[balanbalis]

You don't start a subclan, you have children and they have children and so on. Your abtirsi doesn't end, it keeps going and eventually enough people will share a common ancestor that they'll identify with as a group.

Then what makes other qabiils feel more 'superior' to others? is it having a longer lineage? a bigger family?

 

[balanbalis]

The more boys you have, the more successful you'll be. For example, when they say Samaroon is Gadabuursi, but not all Gadabuursi are Samaroon, it is due to clan dynamics in antiquity, due to war and famine, some branches were more successful, eventually trying to change the name of the clan, eventually it was changed back.

Most clans don't assimilate groups, but they are more fluid groups within the Somali identity.

View attachment 363434

Damn this is a science

 

[Shimbiris]

The more boys you have, the more successful you'll be. For example, when they say Samaroon is Gadabuursi, but not all Gadabuursi are Samaroon, it is due to clan dynamics in antiquity, due to war and famine, some branches were more successful, eventually trying to change the name of the clan, eventually it was changed back.

Most clans don't assimilate groups, but they are more fluid groups within the Somali identity.

View attachment 363434

My eedos and habos made it pretty apparent to me with their humor what it takes to form a clan within a tribe. "May you be as prosperous as Darood himself, eedo macan." as in have many sons, become a big deal of a dude and, well, congrats... a new tol is born and if it grows enough...

 

[NidarNidar]

Damn this is a science

Clans often act as mechanisms for protecting land, wealth, and political power, if something happened to you, your extended family would come to your aid, in a way it was a safety net, There was a central organisation, like a states of Adal/Ajuuran or city or local militias that were governed by elders to keep the peace.

Naruto is a great example, all these clans belong to the Konohagakure, each act as a social group for their members, usually to become a member you have to be born into the clan, the clans belongs to the village, and the village belongs to the land of fire.

 

[Shimbiris]

Clans often act as mechanisms for protecting land, wealth, and political power, if something happened to you, your extended family would come to your aid, in a way it was a safety net, There was a central organisation, like a states of Adal/Ajuuran or city or local militias that were governed by elders to keep the peace.

Naruto is a great example, all these clans belong to the Konohagakure, each act as a social group for their members, usually to become a member you have to be born into the clan, the clans belongs to the village, and the village belongs to the land of fire.
View attachment 363435

He grew up on Naruto too. This fuckin' guy...

 

[Homerlilian2.0]

I can trace trace my lineage to five sub clans and within that last sub clan I can trace about ten awoowes back to him .

Hell my immediate family going back to my great grandfather in most likely in the nine hundred to thousand mark. ( rough estimate but they’re deep )


it ain’t that hard saxiib

 

[NidarNidar]

He grew up on Naruto too. This fuckin' guy...

Damn right, shame about shippuden though, I understand the Japs obsession with Somali politics now. reminds them of the good old days.

 

[Neptune]

Then what makes other qabiils feel more 'superior' to others? is it having a longer lineage? a bigger family?

Yes, a long lineage is praised and makes one 'laandheere' and the opposite, a short lineage is 'laangaab'.

 

[Chaseyourdreamzz]

I think it takes a few generations to form a subclan

 

[Cali Maxamed]

Like for example I know Cisse and Gadabursi are both decended from Dir, but why are their lineages so relevant in Somali politics? Why can't I (hypothetically imagine i'm a man in this situation) just start my own sub-qabiil called Sharmarke Guleed? Do I need to have achievements or something to give me relevancy? Is it just based off having many kids?

Yes, it depends on the number of descendants and their offspring. Over time, these groups may separate from their brothers for various reasons — perhaps due to disputes over tribal leadership, internal conflicts, or because the land’s resources can no longer sustain the entire group and their livestock. When such divisions occur, the offshoot group often adopts the name of their immediate common ancestor and becomes recognized as a sub-clan of the larger clan.

For example, the Majeerteen sub-clan branched off from the Harti clan. Over time, they developed a distinct identity and no longer identified themselves simply as Harti clan. To avoid confusion and to affirm their new identity, they adopted the name of their founding patriarch, becoming known as Majeerteen sub-clan, though genealogically they remain part of the broader Harti lineage.

In contrast, smaller clans often retain their original name and resist fragmentation. This is typically due to their limited numbers; unity offers them strength and protection against being dominated by larger, more numerous clans.

For instance, within the Hiraab clan, the Mudulood sub-clan expanded and produced sub-sub-clans like Abgaal and Wacdaan, while the Madarkicis sub-clan similarly branched into independent sub-sub-clans such as Ceyr, Sufadle, and Suleiman. However, the Duduble sub-clan have largely maintained their cohesion and are still referred to collectively by their original name. This preservation of unity is a conscious choice in many cases, aimed at maintaining political relevance and social strength.

This dynamic — balancing expansion with cohesion — is a central feature of tribal societies.

 

[reer]

Yes, it depends on the number of descendants and their offspring. Over time, these groups may separate from their brothers for various reasons — perhaps due to disputes over tribal leadership, internal conflicts, or because the land’s resources can no longer sustain the entire group and their livestock. When such divisions occur, the offshoot group often adopts the name of their immediate common ancestor and becomes recognized as a sub-clan of the larger clan.

For example, the Majeerteen sub-clan branched off from the Harti clan. Over time, they developed a distinct identity and no longer identified themselves simply as Harti clan. To avoid confusion and to affirm their new identity, they adopted the name of their founding patriarch, becoming known as Majeerteen sub-clan, though genealogically they remain part of the broader Harti lineage.

In contrast, smaller clans often retain their original name and resist fragmentation. This is typically due to their limited numbers; unity offers them strength and protection against being dominated by larger, more numerous clans.

For instance, within the Hiraab clan, the Mudulood sub-clan expanded and produced sub-sub-clans like Abgaal and Wacdaan, while the Madarkicis sub-clan similarly branched into independent sub-sub-clans such as Ceyr, Sufadle, and Suleiman. However, the Duduble sub-clan have largely maintained their cohesion and are still referred to collectively by their original name. This preservation of unity is a conscious choice in many cases, aimed at maintaining political relevance and social strength.

This dynamic — balancing expansion with cohesion — is a central feature of tribal societies.

View attachment 363439

the youngest somali sub clan is the farah ugas/reer diini sub clan. its branches are their own sub clans for a century.
farmajos lineage
Maxamed, Cabdullaahi , Maxamed, Diirshe, Shiil, Cabdille, Allamagan, Dalal (reer dalal), Diini (reer diini), farah ugaas (reer farah ugaas)

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[Chaseyourdreamzz]

the youngest somali sub clan is the farah ugas/reer diini sub clan. its branches are their own sub clans for a century.
farmajos lineage
Maxamed, Cabdullaahi , Maxamed, Diirshe, Shiil, Cabdille, Allamagan, Dalal (reer dalal), Diini (reer diini), farah ugaas (reer farah ugaas)

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Farmaajo counts 8 to diini and he’s in his 60s so the average baby born today would count 10 average ? Or does farmaajo have longer then average abtirsi

 

[reer]

Farmaajo counts 8 to diini and he’s in his 60s so the average baby born today would count 10 average ? Or does farmaajo have longer then average abtirsi

no. the average today counts anywhere from 6(lower end) to 8 or even 9(higher end). farmajo counts seven. we dont count his name and we dont count diini. we count the ancestors between him and ugaas diini.
Cabdullaahi , Maxamed, Diirshe, Shiil, Cabdille, Allamagan, Dalal

 

[Cali Maxamed]

the youngest somali sub clan is the farah ugas/reer diini sub clan. its branches are their own sub clans for a century.
farmajos lineage
Maxamed, Cabdullaahi , Maxamed, Diirshe, Shiil, Cabdille, Allamagan, Dalal (reer dalal), Diini (reer diini), farah ugaas (reer farah ugaas)

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There are 6 to 10 levels of subdivision, with the final one called "Reer," after which one begins reciting their specific lineage.

 

[cunug3aad]

The more boys you have, the more successful you'll be. For example, when they say Samaroon is Gadabuursi, but not all Gadabuursi are Samaroon, it is due to clan dynamics in antiquity, due to war and famine, some branches were more successful, eventually trying to change the name of the clan, eventually it was changed back.

Most clans don't assimilate groups, but they are more fluid groups within the Somali identity.

View attachment 363434

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[NidarNidar]

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[Barkhadle1520]

Like for example I know Cisse and Gadabursi are both decended from Dir, but why are their lineages so relevant in Somali politics? Why can't I (hypothetically imagine i'm a man in this situation) just start my own sub-qabiil called Sharmarke Guleed? Do I need to have achievements or something to give me relevancy? Is it just based off having many kids?

That's literally how it works. Just have a bunch of kids, then they have a bunch of kids and before you know it your family turned into a whole sub-clan.