Former US Ambassador Urges Caution On US Warming Up To Somaliland

[DR OSMAN]

Former U.S. Ambassador to Somalia Larry André Urges Caution on Somaliland Recognition

Former U.S. Ambassador to Somalia Larry André Urges Caution on Somaliland Recognition

www.garoweonline.com

 

[Jaffar]

Detoore the question isnt about Somaliland , what is Puntland doing how long is Puntland going to wait for Mogadishu if secession isnt an option for Puntland at least build a parallel goverment in galkacyo for Somalia.

 

[DR OSMAN]

He didn't say much other then the usual. Any secession requires the consent and approval of the nation it is seceding from especially if that nation is a registered member of multilateral organisations like the UN, AU, etc or else every member state borders could lose legitimacy and be compromised to foreign interference arguing the Somaliland case as a precedent. No nation wants this sort of precedent or Pandora box to open up and jepordise global stability and the post ww2 order.

The other thing he did refuse to mention or provide any vision to is, is the internal issue within the ISAAQ clan itself as their not all secessionist but their largest subclan are federalist(well not the current format(armed sub clan federalism but an irir format using colonial borders as federal border) disregarding pre existing sultanates, disregarding the union period post colonial era, the state collapse era, the civil war era, etc.

Any recognition of Somaliland might sound good to the gullible Isaaq diaspora but this could indeed trigger their own south sudan turmoil(habar on habar wars).

 

[moosaid]

Money talks

 

[DR OSMAN]

Detoore the question isnt about Somaliland , what is Puntland doing how long is Puntland going to wait for Mogadishu if secession isnt an option for Puntland at least build a parallel goverment in galkacyo for Somalia.

If you read what I posted that Somaliland described and concluded for centuries.

 

[Jaffar]

That is not entirely true Detoore. Indeed, history offers several precedents in which countries have attained recognition without the consent of the parent state Kosovo, Western Sahara, and Bangladesh, to name but a few. I am therefore inclined to believe that the separatists in Hargeisa are well aware of such examples and have studied them carefully. Moreover, they may rightly claim the moral high ground: after all, they can demonstrate that they have engaged with the parent country in dialogue for over a decade, yet to no avail. Though i dont think they will get recognition from the west but they could if Somalia doesnt get its act together , i think in the next decade or so there might be some countries they can engage with. Also Abiye and Ethiopia might one to bring back the MOU now he heard the US will recognise Somaliland because If Somaliland is recognised by the USA then Ethiopians can say good bye to ethiopia the sepratists in hargeisa will not give a naval base to Ethiopia for recognition. so they have to act before that.

 

[DR OSMAN]

That is not entirely true Detoore. Indeed, history offers several precedents in which countries have attained recognition without the consent of the parent state Kosovo, Western Sahara, and Bangladesh, to name but a few. I am therefore inclined to believe that the separatists in Hargeisa are well aware of such examples and have studied them carefully. Moreover, they may rightly claim the moral high ground: after all, they can demonstrate that they have engaged with the parent country in dialogue for over a decade, yet to no avail. Though i dont think they will get recognition from the west but they could if Somalia doesnt get its act together , i think in the next decade or so there might be some countries they can engage with. Also Abiye and Ethiopia might one to bring back the MOU now he heard the US will recognise Somaliland because If Somaliland is recognised by the USA then Ethiopians can say good bye to ethiopia the sepratists in hargeisa will not give a naval base to Ethiopia for recognition. so they have to act before that.

Western Sahara lol

Western Sahara is not a member of the UN so it's not a country as you incorrectly posted. Kosovo existed due to Yugoslavia collapse and why many nations were born from it, just like the former USSR states it was upon the USSR collapse that they could emerge. Pakistan recognised Bangladesh alos you seem to forget that just like Ethiopia recognised Eritrea and North Sudan recognised south sudan before anyone else did.

Somalia needs to be destroyed or not exist for Somaliland to even exist which they have tried so hard to pursue but Abdullahi Yusuf put a stop to those shenanigans lol cause once he put Somalia back into Mogadishu and captured the land the federal govt will exist on and when GAAS n Sharmarke as PMS worked hard to deliver Somalia recognition under sharif presidency, SL destroy Somalia at all cost project is over, the worst they can do now is pursue instability goals but never destruction goals or have Somalia lose its member status in the UN(to open up their secession goals) and why Somaliland was more dangerous between 91 to 2012 not 2012 to now as Somalia recognition is set in a stone tablet for centuries thru the UN.

PL founding vision agreed to by Hartis, Leelkase, Awrtable in its 1998 founding charter was clear as hell to stop Somaliland secession by ensuring Somalia exists in the car
Ital(held by moryans n terrorists) which has been achieved and the other one was to help ourselves in our regions and demand a federal format for the Somali republic.

Both those pillars have been achieved by that extraordinary class of civil society, Isims, academics, politicians, religious youth, business, and women groups.

In PL we tend to forget quickly the past and always complain about the present.

August 1 is indeed a celebration for the past and the long hard journey from 98 to 2025(lost lives in war, lost money, regional blockades by Mogadishu since 2012, horgals continuously sent, etc)

Let's celebrate for the past and the sacrifices made. That 98 summit led to going from nothing to what we have now.

 

[Jaffar]

I agree Western Sahara isn’t recognized by the united nation or isn’t a member of the united nation . How ever it is recognized by a dozen of countries and by the African union that is significant. Morocco left due to this fact it left the au organization Bangladesh unilaterally declared independence with out the consent of Pakistan . Pakistan just went along with it since the rest of the world recognized . South Sudan and Eritrea were only two cases where the parent country agreed to the independence bid. I do agree puntland played a vital role in ensuring somalia remains one country but how long can this hold on just now with the fact that pubtland is at odds with the federal goverment it once founded The only way pubtland can win is if it creates paralel goverment for somalia and challenges the federal goverment for the full authority of somalia

 

[The Oponian Guild]

Western Sahara lol

Western Sahara is not a member of the UN so it's not a country as you incorrectly posted. Kosovo existed due to Yugoslavia collapse and why many nations were born from it, just like the former USSR states it was upon the USSR collapse that they could emerge. Pakistan recognised Bangladesh alos you seem to forget that just like Ethiopia recognised Eritrea and North Sudan recognised south sudan before anyone else did.

Somalia needs to be destroyed or not exist for Somaliland to even exist which they have tried so hard to pursue but Abdullahi Yusuf put a stop to those shenanigans lol cause once he put Somalia back into Mogadishu and captured the land the federal govt will exist on and when GAAS n Sharmarke as PMS worked hard to deliver Somalia recognition under sharif presidency, SL destroy Somalia at all cost project is over, the worst they can do now is pursue instability goals but never destruction goals or have Somalia lose its member status in the UN(to open up their secession goals) and why Somaliland was more dangerous between 91 to 2012 not 2012 to now as Somalia recognition is set in a stone tablet for centuries thru the UN.

PL founding vision agreed to by Hartis, Leelkase, Awrtable in its 1998 founding charter was clear as hell to stop Somaliland secession by ensuring Somalia exists in the car
Ital(held by moryans n terrorists) which has been achieved and the other one was to help ourselves in our regions and demand a federal format for the Somali republic.

Both those pillars have been achieved by that extraordinary class of civil society, Isims, academics, politicians, religious youth, business, and women groups.

In PL we tend to forget quickly the past and always complain about the present.

August 1 is indeed a celebration for the past and the long hard journey from 98 to 2025(lost lives in war, lost money, regional blockades by Mogadishu since 2012, horgals continuously sent, etc)

Let's celebrate for the past and the sacrifices made. That 98 summit led to going from nothing to what we have now.

These Somaliyeeste interventionist class in PL who are rabid Somali nationalists are the reason why we are still stuck on this roundabout and are still tied to Xamar shenanigans, this bipolar and dissociative behaviour where theyre banging the drum about autonomy and being free of Xamar yet at same time sign over PL infrastructure fund allocations/ compromise PL Dastuur/ and back candidates for the FGS, and pursue a centralised Somalia under dinosaur and ancient 4.5 agreement.

Banana republic miyaa nahay ? No investiture of power in the state apparatus, deni walks into parliament whenever he wants makes a grand speech and then leaves, horgals run amuck, WTF is going on? Is this to be our inheritance?

 

[The Oponian Guild]

Ditoore I respect your well founded political stances and views but surely you don’t believe in this weaponised somaliweyn nonsense

 

[DR OSMAN]

Ditoore I respect your well founded political stances and views but surely you don’t believe in this weaponised somaliweyn nonsense

I believe it was a political experiment that turned nasty due to a number of factors such as the system being implemented was basically a copy n paste European fuedal system a totally foreign idealogy unfit for the local reality.

The only single thing unifying our people was the urgent need and common aspirations between clans to be free and independent and to remove these foreign thugs dressed up as authority figures of our land holdings and when this was achieved due to a number of global factors such as Europe was coming out of ww2 and was quite weakened and struggling to hold onto its own land holdings lol and we were inspired by other movements on the continent also.

Somali common anti colonial pact, it's common anti Ethiopia pact(77 war) once these expired and lived out its usefulness, the reality touched them about how unfit somali state is but they blamed leaders n clans which they still do which is unfortunately incorrect when it's infact the actual system is unfit for local reality and it's irrelevant which clan rules as their will always be some fucking rebellion happening.

 

[The Oponian Guild]

I believe it was a political experiment that turned nasty due to a number of factors such as the system being implemented was basically a copy n paste European fuedal system a totally foreign idealogy unfit for the local reality.

The only single thing unifying our people was the urgent need and common aspirations between clans to be free and independent and to remove these foreign thugs dressed up as authority figures of our land holdings and when this was achieved due to a number of global factors such as Europe was coming out of ww2 and was quite weakened and struggling to hold onto its own land holdings lol and we were inspired by other movements on the continent also.

Somali common anti colonial pact, it's common anti Ethiopia pact(77 war) once these expired and lived out its usefulness, the reality touched them about how unfit somali state is but they blamed leaders n clans which they still do which is unfortunately incorrect when it's infact the actual system is unfit for local reality and it's irrelevant which clan rules as their will always be some fucking rebellion happening.

I place the blame straight at the feet of the early MJ unionist leaders who created this Frankenstein like and rushed national Somali ideology, where the archetypal Somali is a northerner of geeljire extraction, and in which the Sayid is immortalised into a demagogue and there is no common or collective history that doesn’t stretch before the advent of the two Sultanates, the absolute hubris to think you could rule/hold together a country the size of Western Europe using such tacky and ridiculous national propaganda. We have no one else to blame, not even the other Somalis.

 

[The Oponian Guild]

I place the blame straight at the feet of the early MJ unionist leaders who created this Frankenstein like and rushed national Somali ideology, where the archetypal Somali is a northerner of geeljire extraction, and in which the Sayid is immortalised into a demagogue and there is no common to collective history that doesn’t stretch before the advent of the two Sultanates, the absolute hubris to think you could rule/hold together a country the size of Western Europe using such tacky and ridiculous national propaganda. We have no one else to blame, not even the other Somalis.

When I realised this absurdity, everything begun to make sense.