Child abuse or Discipline? Let’s Discuss this.

Basra

LOVE is a product of Doqoniimo mixed with lust
Let Them Eat Cake
VIP
There is no benefit to many kids if you live in America or in the West in general. Single mothers should not have more than one kid at all. And some people should not bear children because they need to be taken care of themselves.


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Basra,

I changed my views over the years because of what I have seen on the ground and with Somali families. It is pointless to have a kid every year or every other year. There is just zero value to the numbers.

It is better to have few and focus on them and raise them well. Otherwise, they are a waste. Somalis say "dab igu soo dheji lagama karo" when describing a useless kid who is just a burden on their parents. The type of kids who grow up selfish and caring only about themselves. And even with such attitude, they are still losers and very harmful to themselves and to those around them. Zero value obtained by having them as children.
 
Beating is good. It increases cognitive neurons in a normal child, and even better for autistic child. Its sad but that is the truth. I am not encouraging this-- but children who were molested as a child or experienced trauma grow up extremely intelligent compared to their sheltered counter part age groups. They get woke in short.

There is actually a hadith that backs my claim about beating kids. I forget which one-- the hadith clearly states the children will be intelligent. I think it was a mother beating her kids. My mom used to beat us like crazy lol we were naturally bloke heads. But we all grew up extremely intelligent. Lol

Here’s why you’re wrong:

(article on WebMd.com)

Brain Development Harmed in Mistreated Kids​

A new study shows that the stress of child abuse appears to shrink a key region of the brain that regulates emotion, memory, and learning.
The finding may help explain why mistreated kids often experience lasting mental problems like depression and other psychiatric disorders.
The study is a counterpoint to recent research that found that children who were nurtured early in life were more likely to have larger brain centers for memory and emotion.
“Stress has a negative impact on brain development; support has a positive impact,” says Joan Luby, MD, a child psychiatrist at Washington University in St. Louis, Mo. Luby studies early emotional development, but she was not involved in the research.

The impact on brain development caused by child abuse may have lasting consequences.
“Having adverse life experiences clearly puts people at risk for mental disorders,” she says.

Tracking the Effects of Child Abuse on the Brain​

For the study, researchers recruited almost 200 young adults in the Boston area who were not taking medications and who were not addicted to drugs or alcohol.


Researchers conducted interviews to find out if people had been physically, emotionally, or sexually abused as children. They were also asked about neglect, verbal abuse, or significant separations or losses that may have stemmed from events like death or divorce.
About half of study subjects reported no history of mistreatment. Among those who had memories of abuse, physical or verbal abuse by a parent was the most common kind.
Although verbal abuse may not sound severe, researcher Martin H. Teicher, MD, PhD, a psychiatrist at McLean Hospital in Belmont, Mass., says that in previous studies, he’s seen that verbal abuse can be severely damaging.
“You have to be careful in terms of ridiculing and humiliating children,” he says. “Parental verbal abuse is a severe stressor that’s comparable in magnitude to sexual abuse or witnessing domestic violence.”

About 16% of people in the study reported three or more forms of maltreatment, exposing them to significant levels of abuse.
This group also reported higher-than-average rates of mental illness. Depression was about twice as common and post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) was about three times as common in young adults who were significantly mistreated, compared to those who were not.
Next, researchers used magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) scans to measure a part of the brain called the hippocampus.


Why Early-Life Stress Sometimes Leads to Mental Illness​

Previous studies have linked the hippocampus to a host of activities. It is thought to be important for forming, sorting, and storing new memories and for processing emotions. But the hippocampus is also vulnerable to stress. Studies have found that people and animals exposed to stress hormones over a long period of time have smaller hippocampi than those who are not similarly stressed.
Shrinkage in this brain region has been shown in people who have mental illnesses like schizophrenia and depression.
Researchers found that three key regions of the hippocampus were nearly 6% to 7% smaller in people who were significantly mistreated as kids compared to those who were not.

The brain findings were there, whether or not a person was showing signs of a mental illness like depressionor PTSD.
Based on previous research, “It seems like there’s this sensitive period between 3 to 5 years of age when the hippocampus may be very sensitive,” Teicher says.
“The consequences may not be [apparent] initially; they may be silent for many years before they unfold,” he says.

But he says people who had rough childhoods should also know that although early life experiences may be important for brain function, other studies have shown that some of the brain changes can be undone.
“Things like vigorous exercise will change it. Mental stimulation will influence it,” Teicher says. “Changes in the hippocampus are plastic and can be modified.”
 

Basra

LOVE is a product of Doqoniimo mixed with lust
Let Them Eat Cake
VIP

Here’s why you’re wrong:

(article on WebMd.com)

Brain Development Harmed in Mistreated Kids​

A new study shows that the stress of child abuse appears to shrink a key region of the brain that regulates emotion, memory, and learning.
The finding may help explain why mistreated kids often experience lasting mental problems like depression and other psychiatric disorders.
The study is a counterpoint to recent research that found that children who were nurtured early in life were more likely to have larger brain centers for memory and emotion.
“Stress has a negative impact on brain development; support has a positive impact,” says Joan Luby, MD, a child psychiatrist at Washington University in St. Louis, Mo. Luby studies early emotional development, but she was not involved in the research.

The impact on brain development caused by child abuse may have lasting consequences.
“Having adverse life experiences clearly puts people at risk for mental disorders,” she says.

Tracking the Effects of Child Abuse on the Brain​

For the study, researchers recruited almost 200 young adults in the Boston area who were not taking medications and who were not addicted to drugs or alcohol.


Researchers conducted interviews to find out if people had been physically, emotionally, or sexually abused as children. They were also asked about neglect, verbal abuse, or significant separations or losses that may have stemmed from events like death or divorce.
About half of study subjects reported no history of mistreatment. Among those who had memories of abuse, physical or verbal abuse by a parent was the most common kind.
Although verbal abuse may not sound severe, researcher Martin H. Teicher, MD, PhD, a psychiatrist at McLean Hospital in Belmont, Mass., says that in previous studies, he’s seen that verbal abuse can be severely damaging.
“You have to be careful in terms of ridiculing and humiliating children,” he says. “Parental verbal abuse is a severe stressor that’s comparable in magnitude to sexual abuse or witnessing domestic violence.”

About 16% of people in the study reported three or more forms of maltreatment, exposing them to significant levels of abuse.
This group also reported higher-than-average rates of mental illness. Depression was about twice as common and post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) was about three times as common in young adults who were significantly mistreated, compared to those who were not.
Next, researchers used magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) scans to measure a part of the brain called the hippocampus.


Why Early-Life Stress Sometimes Leads to Mental Illness​

Previous studies have linked the hippocampus to a host of activities. It is thought to be important for forming, sorting, and storing new memories and for processing emotions. But the hippocampus is also vulnerable to stress. Studies have found that people and animals exposed to stress hormones over a long period of time have smaller hippocampi than those who are not similarly stressed.
Shrinkage in this brain region has been shown in people who have mental illnesses like schizophrenia and depression.
Researchers found that three key regions of the hippocampus were nearly 6% to 7% smaller in people who were significantly mistreated as kids compared to those who were not.

The brain findings were there, whether or not a person was showing signs of a mental illness like depressionor PTSD.
Based on previous research, “It seems like there’s this sensitive period between 3 to 5 years of age when the hippocampus may be very sensitive,” Teicher says.
“The consequences may not be [apparent] initially; they may be silent for many years before they unfold,” he says.

But he says people who had rough childhoods should also know that although early life experiences may be important for brain function, other studies have shown that some of the brain changes can be undone.
“Things like vigorous exercise will change it. Mental stimulation will influence it,” Teicher says. “Changes in the hippocampus are plastic and can be modified.”


These studies cannot be really credible. How can you take what you ask kids at face values? The entire basis of this study depends on kids being interviewed and accepting their lies or truths.

Obviously a child being nurtured and NOT ABUSED is preferred. But i am saying, if it happens-- the child becomes resilient, more "woke" and intelligent than the child who was sheltered and pampered. Believe me. I know.
 
These studies cannot be really credible. How can you take what you ask kids at face values? The entire basis of this study depends on kids being interviewed and accepting their lies or truths.

Obviously a child being nurtured and NOT ABUSED is preferred. But i am saying, if it happens-- the child becomes resilient, more "woke" and intelligent than the child who was sheltered and pampered. Believe me. I know.
The child only comes out better in spite of what they experienced not due to what they experienced.
What I mean is abuse sets children back alot, and to get past all of that causes alot of work to be done on a persons character and stuff, usually ppl who have the strength to do that turn out better than normal ppl due to the fact that it took so much perseverance, but most ppl donot overcome their trauma and end up worse off,

But its always better to not abuse your children bc their are no negatives to showing mercy to ur children, anyone who has read the seerah knows that children must always be shown mercy to, bc thats what Allah wants, there is no advantage to beating ur children, ur children tend to become more resilient if they get shown mercy as it allows them to navigate life with healthy emotions rather than being broken inside

Umar RA was beaten and overworked as a child by his father, probably one reason why he was harsh, but as he grew older and learned more about Islam he learned to be more merciful, u can see during his time as khalifah how merciful and just he was, he was kind to all of his children, he learned from his upbringing what not to do, and didnt let that stop him from being the 3rd best person in this ummah

Point is, dont abuse ur children ever, if u do, Then it is likely Allah will recompense u for ur injustice and it will not be easy, Any punishment in this dunya is childs play compared to yawmul qiyama

second point is if u do go through abuse its Allahs wisdom and u shouldnt let that stop u from being a great person

Alot of the prophets were abused as children, were orphans, had difficult childhoods, so its not necessarily a bad thing in totality, just like if u were oppressed thats not a bad thing for u as u will get recompensed for it, but for the oppressor it is a bad

Let Allah test u, its not for other ppl to punish other ppl to make them more resilient
 

Basra

LOVE is a product of Doqoniimo mixed with lust
Let Them Eat Cake
VIP
The child only comes out better in spite of what they experienced not due to what they experienced.
What I mean is abuse sets children back alot, and to get past all of that causes alot of work to be done on a persons character and stuff, usually ppl who have the strength to do that turn out better than normal ppl due to the fact that it took so much perseverance, but most ppl donot overcome their trauma and end up worse off,

But its always better to not abuse your children bc their are no negatives to showing mercy to ur children, anyone who has read the seerah knows that children must always be shown mercy to, bc thats what Allah wants, there is no advantage to beating ur children, ur children tend to become more resilient if they get shown mercy as it allows them to navigate life with healthy emotions rather than being broken inside

Umar RA was beaten and overworked as a child by his father, probably one reason why he was harsh, but as he grew older and learned more about Islam he learned to be more merciful, u can see during his time as khalifah how merciful and just he was, he was kind to all of his children, he learned from his upbringing what not to do, and didnt let that stop him from being the 3rd best person in this ummah

Point is, dont abuse ur children ever, if u do, Then it is likely Allah will recompense u for ur injustice and it will not be easy, Any punishment in this dunya is childs play compared to yawmul qiyama

second point is if u do go through abuse its Allahs wisdom and u shouldnt let that stop u from being a great person

Alot of the prophets were abused as children, were orphans, had difficult childhoods, so its not necessarily a bad thing in totality, just like if u were oppressed thats not a bad thing for u as u will get recompensed for it, but for the oppressor it is a bad

Let Allah test u, its not for other ppl to punish other ppl to make them more resilient


Umar ibn Khataab ra was a natural man. The original Alpha male prototype. His harshness might have been influenced by his harsh father, but we never know. Maybe the genes are just made that way. Umar never changed even when became a Muslim. He was still harsh. loool


There is a scene where Prophet pbuh sat with women openly and Umar knocked at the door-- all the women ran to a room behind the curtains. When Umar entered Prophet pbuh started laughing loud. Umar asked what is funny my beloved prophet pbuh? Prophet pbuh said- the women ran as soon as they heard u coming- they are afraid of u more than me.

Umar got mad and said-- You women ---who are enemies to your own selves--why are u not afraid of the prophet pbuh more than me? One woman responded, u r Harasher and rough than our beloved prophet pbuh! loooooool


So its a matter of character huuno. We are WHO we are --shaped by either genes or life experience.
 
Umar ibn Khataab ra was a natural man. The original Alpha male prototype. His harshness might have been influenced by his harsh father, but we never know. Maybe the genes are just made that way. Umar never changed when became a muslim. He was still harsh. loool


There is a scene where Prophet pbuh sat with women openly and Umar knocked at the door-- all the women ran to a room behind the curtains. When Umar entered Prophet pbuh started laughing loud. Umar asked what is funny my beloved prophet pbuh? Prophet pbuh said- the women ran as soon as they heard u coming- they are afraid of u more than me.

Umar got mad and said-- You women ---who are enemies to your own selves--why are u not afraid of the prophet pbuh more than me? One woman responded, u r Harasher and rough than our beloved prophet pbuh! loooooool


So its a matter of character huuno. We are WHO are --shaped by either genes or life experience.
Yh but my point still remains.
His harshness was always their but it lessened wen he became a caliphate.
 

Basra

LOVE is a product of Doqoniimo mixed with lust
Let Them Eat Cake
VIP
Yh but my point still remains.
His harshness was always their but it lessened wen he became a caliphate.


Umar Ibn Khataab ra was a blessed man. Prophet pbuh said even the devils--invisibly avoid Umar on the streets. Many times Umar asked for something about Islam law and Allaah swt answered him in the Quran. He is made of rough stones. Gold stones Mashalaaah
 
These studies cannot be really credible. How can you take what you ask kids at face values? The entire basis of this study depends on kids being interviewed and accepting their lies or truths.

Obviously a child being nurtured and NOT ABUSED is preferred. But i am saying, if it happens-- the child becomes resilient, more "woke" and intelligent than the child who was sheltered and pampered. Believe me. I know.
A sense of independence and responsibility is what makes a child more intelligent NOT abuse. A child can be nurtured but taught to think for themselves and given chores and responsibilities from a young age.
 

Basra

LOVE is a product of Doqoniimo mixed with lust
Let Them Eat Cake
VIP
A sense of independence and responsibility is what makes a child more intelligent NOT abuse. A child can be nurtured but taught to think for themselves and given chores and responsibilities from a young age.


I agree 100%
 

Clllam

<<~~~CLLLAM~~~>>
There’s a few hoyoos here who have autistic kids who are grown and big and that beat on them alot.
She says she loves him, but he beats on her all the time. He knocked her unconscious a few times while I was at school.
His aunt ( my mom sister ) raised him for ten years and he simply doesn’t know who my mom is.
She gets frustrated with him and often is angry with him around, but no she doesn’t hate him.
But there’s a lot of parents who do hate their special needs kids.

I’m sorry don’t drag me guys, but I truly believe it’s the cousin marriage. It’s not the vaccines cause then everyone would have autism. All of my friends beilve it’s cousin marriage as well.

Here’s a list of the countries with the highest autism rates…
I also read that in some of these countries, vaccination rates are low, so we can’t keep blaming the vaccines.

And they’re all majority Muslim countries.
Why is there such a high rate of autism in the somali community? Many parents hate their autistic kids although they wont admit it in public.

@Amina99 does your mom also hate her autistic child?
Well no. There was one study carried out in Sweden of 17 Somali children with autism whilst significant consanguinity was not found in any of them.

The actual reason as to why Austism is a lot more prevalent amongst Somalis in the West is likely due to Vitamin D deficiency and the fact that Autism is unheard of in Somalia and even seen as a Western Disease amongst Somalis supports this.

Autism is caused by mix of different factors and the environmental one is also involved.

Another study found a high prevalence of autism in Ugandan males in Sweden so the problem is most likely to do with vitamin D deficiency and climate rather than other factors such as vaccines, consanguinity, etc.
 
Well no. There was one study carried out in Sweden of 17 Somali children with autism whilst significant consanguinity was not found in any of them.

The actual reason as to why Austism is a lot more prevalent amongst Somalis in the West is likely due to Vitamin D deficiency and the fact that Autism is unheard of in Somalia and even seen as a Western Disease amongst Somalis supports this.

Autism is caused by mix of different factors and the environmental one is also involved.

Another study found a high prevalence of autism in Ugandan males in Sweden so the problem is most likely to do with vitamin D deficiency and climate rather than other factors such as vaccines, consanguinity, etc.
Coming in with the facts
 
These studies cannot be really credible. How can you take what you ask kids at face values? The entire basis of this study depends on kids being interviewed and accepting their lies or truths.

Obviously a child being nurtured and NOT ABUSED is preferred. But i am saying, if it happens-- the child becomes resilient, more "woke" and intelligent than the child who was sheltered and pampered. Believe me. I know.

WebMD is the top trustworthy site for medical information that’s been recommended by family physician dr Mike. The way you worded it in your original post, you made it sound like beating is a wonderful way to ensure you raise responsible, mature kids. Girl, growing up i used to get beaten for ‘discipline’ and in no way did it make me an intelligent and mature person. I matured as wisdom came with the years yes. But all the beatings did was cause stress, pain and difficult relationships. You may have turned out alright and that’s wonderful. But let’s not act like child abuse has great effects.
 
I don't know how bad it is in your situation, but didn't we all get beat by our parents if we messed up, or not even mess up, but just annoying our parents while they have other troubles on their mind? I mean, of course...it was not that my face would get swollen, but I have gotten the belt or tv cable a few times and I don't hold any grudges against my parents for that tbh, on the contrary, we still laugh about it with my brothers and sisters today when we think back on it. It was kinda funny. But as I said up here, I don't know how bad it is in your situation. I knew my parents love me dearly and I don't think beating your child is necessarily evil, but it depends on how hard you beat him. I mean, a child is a child at the end, and you won't beat a child to a point that his/her face gets swollen. My parents never used to hit me on the face btw, always with a belt on my fuuto if I really messed up, or a snarky pinch from my mother on my arms, lol.

Anyway, if you really fear for the safety of N, threat her that you will call CPS on her (of course don't do it), but maybe the threat alone can deter her from abusing him. And if that doesn't help, try to move out with him.
 
Facts. I actually don’t want more children and knew from the very start that I would stick to just one, have been yelled at by family and others. They think I’m selfish and don’t realize how hard it is to raise good quality children.
I’m very happy and satisfied with just one.

I’m actually planning on getting my tubes tied, but they refuse young women. Not until they reach their 30s.

I know way too many women who kept on having kids just for no reason and they all suffered cause of it and these women tell me they wish they stuck to one.


Btw, I would advise you instead of tying your tubes, to make decisions based on your partner's contribution to your life and whether they are caring and willing to meet their parental responsibilities. If you have such a husband, then two more kids is not bad. From the perspective of most children, having a sibling is good. As a woman, you are most likely to shoulder the heaviest burden in the house even with the best husband. It is how life is. Mothers are the ones who are there 24/7 to deal with the kids. It is the reason Islam gives them triple the rank in rights to the father/husband.

Make your choices based on your abilities to meet expectations from you as a parent. If you are on your own or don't have a responsible husband, use protection and have no kids.
 
May I ask why you wanna make a radical decision like getting your tubes tied? You may be in a difficult spot right now with everything that is going on in your life. But why would you make such a huge decision when you’re in a bad place? You should make such decisions only when you’re in a good headspace. You might just regret it terribly when you’re 35. Who knows. And God forbid this ever happens, may Allah protect him and give him long life, but what if you lost your son? And then you never have the possibility to have children of your own again. I understand that you love having one child right now and that’s okay. But please don’t deprive yourself of the ability to bear more children just because right now you think parenting and having more children is so hard. Think about these things very well before you make decisions.
Hello, and thanks for your input it but I can’t exactly state the real reason but let’s just say I was forced into myhaving this child, despite something that happened to me earlier that indicated I needed to recover from.

I’ve thought about it for years and I am in a good headspace to make this decision thanks.

Not every women needs to have kids and I wish more people understood that.

There’s also a health reason, and after birth I had to do a surgery to correct the issue and was told the more children I have the, the worse this condition gets ( it’s genetic as the women in my family ignored doctors and later after multiple kids had to do intense surgery to fix ).

I took care of him all by myself ( husband in Somalia and family always working far away ) and I also have-had post partum depression, to which I got alto better from.

I went to school and workedwhile taking care of him and it’s not something I recommend anyone to do just because, unless you have help.

If you knew the married somali women I knew who cried and openly stated how depressed ( one was suicidal Miskeen ) they were since having their kids, you would understand where I’m coming from.

Each one of them would tell me how much they miss having just one kid or wished they stopped at one or two.

I think people who didn’t have kids ( no offence ) underestimate how difficult they are and how serous it is to raise one.

So although you come from a good place, I wouldn’t have more children also simply because I don’t desire to. Not every women is destined to be a mother.

I look forward to being 30- 35 and older since he’ll be grown as well, and plus I think it’s selfish to have more kids just cause you wanted to knowing you can’t handle them.
If Allah swt takes my child from me it was written but in the end, I would rather regret not having more kids then regret having all these kids.
 
Btw, I would advise you instead of tying your tubes, to make decisions based on your partner's contribution to your life and whether they are caring and willing to meet their parental responsibilities. If you have such a husband, then two more kids is not bad. From the perspective of most children, having a sibling is good. As a woman, you are most likely to shoulder the heaviest burden in the house even with the best husband. It is how life is. Mothers are the ones who are there 24/7 to deal with the kids. It is the reason Islam gives them triple the rank in rights to the father/husband.

Make your choices based on your abilities to meet expectations from you as a parent. If you are on your own or don't have a responsible husband, use protection and have no kids.
I was married before and saw how he was as a husband and knew not to keep having kids with him, despite all the aunties telling me to. Which is absurd.

I don’t plan on remarrying and plan to just stack to myslef and take care of my son while co parenting with his dad.

If I do get remarried in the future, ( probably won’t ), I would hope he is done having kids as well, and he doesn’t want anymore just like me.
 
Basra,

I changed my views over the years because of what I have seen on the ground and with Somali families. It is pointless to have a kid every year or every other year. There is just zero value to the numbers.

It is better to have few and focus on them and raise them well. Otherwise, they are a waste. Somalis say "dab igu soo dheji lagama karo" when describing a useless kid who is just a burden on their parents. The type of kids who grow up selfish and caring only about themselves. And even with such attitude, they are still losers and very harmful to themselves and to those around them. Zero value obtained by having them as children.
Let me say how smart you are to think outside the group and say the truth. It is pointless to have child after child, while still in government housing and your finances and job opportunities are not in the best shape.

I’ve seen way too many mothers who have told me if they could go back, they would and regret the amount of kids they had and wish they had 1-2 or even 3, with better resources and time to raise each one.
 
I was married before and saw how he was as a husband and knew not to keep having kids with him, despite all the aunties telling me to. Which is absurd.

I don’t plan on remarrying and plan to just stack to myslef and take care of my son while co parenting with his dad.

If I do get remarried in the future, ( probably won’t ), I would hope he is done having kids as well, and he doesn’t want anymore just like me.


I agree with you. We need to enjoy life and do not burden ourselves with more than we can handle without justifiable need.

As for your marriage plans in the future, you should keep an open mind always and weigh the pros and cons as you seem to be doing. The more years pass, the more educated Somalis will be available who are adept about life in the west and its difficulties. So you being in your prime years now works in your favor. You will meet a man who thinks like you inshallah. Plus you already have an experience of what it means to be a mother.

I would rather have zero kids than end up with kids who are drug addicts, alcoholics, self harming adults, non-muslims just to name few of the reasons I disapprove of having large number of kids. In the west, it is 50/50 outcome, so few kids work better to avoid the disasters we have seen in our community. Useless human beings annoy me.

Plus too many available Somali women with no prospects for marriage.
 
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