Child abuse or Discipline? Let’s Discuss this.

Hello everyone, I’m already up pretty late and wanted to ask about something serious.

If you read my previous post about my family situation then you’ll be familiar about what I’m going to say.
Can we have a serious discussion about what is labeled discipline or just plain child abuse in our community and culture ?

So I got these two younger brothers in the home, 14 ( J ) and 12 ( N ). J is severely autistic.

The stress of taking care of J has us all stressed but with my mother she takes that stress and often beats N.

Me and my other brothers who are a year apart and grew together were beat by our mother but my mother always said it was discipline and it was a good thing that she did.

But I often remember most of our beatings went too far and was often for things she was just mad about, very rarely for something we did wrong. It was so bad to the point my older brother ( 29 ), doesn’t talk to my mom anymore since this summer,( he said the beatings she gave him and verbal abuse really affected him and he doesn’t like talking to her and her arguing with him ). Hes also remembers about how she wouldn’t let him go back to school in his early twenties, and wanted him to stay home and pay all the bills and he moved out and went to college and graduated and got a good job mashallah.

So to see her constantly beating on N is really hard to see. She does it in front of my son who I’ve asked her to not do, but she continues to beat him all the time.

She beat him so badly on his face, he couldn’t start his first week of school, cause his face was all swollen and cuts everywhere, but eventually he did go to school, to which the assistant principle has asked me about to which I denied anything.

( Mind you he called cause N is acting really bad and doing bad in his grades and my mother denied him being bad and that the teachers are lying on her kid, thus the teachers calling me to ask about his behaviour ).
He’s a little demon himself and is awful to me but I’m not heartless and it’s awful seeing her beat him throughout the week.

Like I’m serious it’s multiple times a week since he’s come to Canada back in late 2020.

I’ve tried talking to her but she will fight with me and insist its discipline, but I tell her how it’s better to talk with him and give out smart punishments instead of beating on him really bad.

My friends I’ve asked about this and other relatives believe it or not have even suggested I call child services but I wouldn’t do that, but I would like something to be done so when I move away, I can know N is ok.

Why do some hoyoos do this and insist it’s good when tbh most people I’ve asked about this have said it did more harm and negative than good ?
 
Last edited:
I’m really sorry to hear all this is going in on in your family. May I ask how old you are? And how many younger siblings do you have, besides J and N?
You said you have a son so I’m assuming you have your own place. Perhaps you could take in N, even it’s just temporarily. He needs to be in a safe place and find peace so that he can work on improving his behavior and do his schoolwork so that he’ll get better grades. He’s constantly being beaten up by your mother, that’s incredibly stressful so no wonder his grades are bad.
how is the relationship between you and your mom? Can you sit down and talk to her without any awkwardness or fear that it will turn into an argument?
And where is your dad?
Do you have any family members or family friends that you could talk to and ask for help? Maybe your mom just needs to hear it again from someone else, to understand that her behavior is toxic and that it needs to change. Does your mom speak English very well? And does she know about CPS? Who knows, your brother might just explode one day and report her to CPS. It will put your mother in a really tough spot, her other son could be taken away as well and she should be aware of that. In order to avoid that, she should stop abusing her kids.
Maybe you and your two older brothers can have a conversation with your mother. Tell her that her abusive ways are very distressing and make it clear to her that it’s doing more harm than good. I mean, your oldest brother isn’t talking to your mom anymore because he resents her so that says a lot. For all we know you and the other kids may start resenting her and go no contact as well. Does your mom want to up in a nursing home or something?
Also, you said you live in Canada right? I don’t know if healthcare is free in Canada or if you have insurance, but if you have the option I would definitely suggest starting therapy. You have obviously been through a lot as a victim of abuse, and the situation at home with your mom and your brothers is also super stressful. But if you do start therapy be careful what you say about the abuse, cause you don’t want your therapist calling CPS or anything like that. Instead focus on healing from your difficult childhood, dealing with stress etc.
 
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
Everything you’ve said I’ve agreed with. And it’s very true that some hoyoos will never see where they went wrong and instead blame the child when they try to confront them and talk about it.
She has done so much to break our family and instead of looking within, to see where she can improve and accept responsibility to change it, she attacks us all and blames us for everything and wishes that we weren’t born.

The main reason ( other than the beatings and verbal abuse she gave him and us ) my brother went ghost on her was when she told him to go to hell and die when he talked to her about why she would suggest that I would get a brand new car with 360 bi weekly payments knowing I was a student and a single mother and wanted to move out, and those car payments would’ve kept me finically trapped.

He also brought up the fact that when I was 19 in 2013, she got a brand new car under my name and credit and made us seem like we were wrong ones.

She tried to pressure me into staying by saying how broke she is ( she is not ), but I’ll try to do the Iman thing. She may get mad that I told them what’s going on so idk about that.
 
Everything you’ve said I’ve agreed with. And it’s very true that some hoyoos will never see where they went wrong and instead blame the child when they try to confront them and talk about it.
She has done so much to break our family and instead of looking within, to see where she can improve and accept responsibility to change it, she attacks us all and blames us for everything and wishes that were went bor

The main reason ( other than the beatings and verbal abuse she gave him and us ) my brother went ghost on hewhen she told him to go to hell and die when he talked to her about why she would suggest that I would get a brand new car with 360 bi weekly payments knowing I was a student and a single mother and wanted to move out, and those car payments would’ve kept me finically trapped.

He also brought up the fact that when I was 19 in 2013, she got a brand new car under my name and credit and made us seem like we were wrong ones.

She tried to pressure me into staying by saying how broke she is ( she is not ), but I’ll try to do the Iman thing. She may get mad that I told them what’s going on so idk about that.
Honestly sis, choose your son! You're a mother and you owe it your son to be a better mother your hooyo has been as clearly (no offense) the only person your mother chooses is herself. Her selfishness is going to put you in a situation in which your child might be the one paying the price. Also, at this point I don't think you should care about whether she gets mad or not, she needs the brutal truth and I think you should move out and tell her you can't live like this. You've mentioned that you have a step-father that is reasonable. Does your mother not listen to him?!
 
Last edited:
Remind her she can get the kids taken away by child services. Beatings don’t work, it makes kids more aggressive at school.

But it also sounds like your mom has her own issues to work through.
 
Everyones talking about the mum but noones talking about ur brother?
Have u even talked to ur brother, asked him how he feels, Being trapped in a household of fear stunts a childs brain growth, and also destins them to act out later in life.
1.You should get some help for ur brother, idk what but just do, maybe tell him to do a martial art to relieve all his anger, maybe talk to him for an hour or 2 or something everyweek,
If u dont help ur brother hes gonna end up acting out now or later, ur older brother is cutting off family ties due to ur mothers behaviour and thats a major sin but ur brother feels like its justified bc of the pain ur mother caused, u should help out ur younger brothers issues
2.Have u made dua? Have u prayed tahaujudd or salatul istikhara on what to do, we tend to do all of the dunya stuff b4 we ask Allah, it should be the opposite way round, dua in the last third of the night is most likely to get accepted
3.U need to get other people involved, u obv dont sem to be able to help ur mum urself, so u may need to get family or someone ur mum would respect and listen to, and make alot of dua

But srs check on ur brother,
 
There's a difference between discipline and senseless beatings/abuse. What your mom is doing is abuse. Islamically, we are not supposed to strike the face of a person (which your mom does) or be cruel and inflict permanent harm (which your mom also does). Discipline varies for children, some may only need verbal warnings whereas other need a physical punishment when they take things too far. Nevertheless, physical punishment should be a LAST RESORT after you've given multiple warnings and other punishments (such as taking away privileges). Most of the time, if a child is raised well and equip with logical thinking skills, you'll never have to resort to physical punishment.

You need to prioritize your son, get him out of the house and into a safe environment. Try your best to help your younger brother also, as responsibility of his well-being also falls upon you as his older sibling. Heed the previous advice given and may Allah keep you, your son and siblings safe.

Many of our parents have so much emotional baggage, trama and mental illness and they inflict their pain/issues onto us. May Allah help the Somali people.
 
I’m really sorry to hear all this is going in on in your family. May I ask how old you are? And how many younger siblings do you have, besides J and N?
You said you have a son so I’m assuming you have your own place. Perhaps you could take in N, even it’s just temporarily. He needs to be in a safe place and find peace so that he can work on improving his behavior and do his schoolwork so that he’ll get better grades. He’s constantly being beaten up by your mother, that’s incredibly stressful so no wonder his grades are bad.
how is the relationship between you and your mom? Can you sit down and talk to her without any awkwardness or fear that it will turn into an argument?
And where is your dad?
Do you have any family members or family friends that you could talk to and ask for help? Maybe your mom just needs to hear it again from someone else, to understand that her behavior is toxic and that it needs to change. Does your mom speak English very well? And does she know about CPS? Who knows, your brother might just explode one day and report her to CPS. It will put your mother in a really tough spot, her other son could be taken away as well and she should be aware of that. In order to avoid that, she should stop abusing her kids.
Maybe you and your two older brothers can have a conversation with your mother. Tell her that her abusive ways are very distressing and make it clear to her that it’s doing more harm than good. I mean, your oldest brother isn’t talking to your mom anymore because he resents her so that says a lot. For all we know you and the other kids may start resenting her and go no contact as well. Does your mom want to up in a nursing home or something?
Also, you said you live in Canada right? I don’t know if healthcare is free in Canada or if you have insurance, but if you have the option I would definitely suggest starting therapy. You have obviously been through a lot as a victim of abuse, and the situation at home with your mom and your brothers is also super stressful. But if you do start therapy be careful what you say about the abuse, cause you don’t want your therapist calling CPS or anything like that. Instead focus on healing from your difficult childhood, dealing with stress etc.
Hello and thanks for your input. So it’s me and my two brothers, I am 27, one is 29, and the other is 26.
I am planning to leave myslef, and the issue with N I didn’t mention is that he very violent himself and cruel towards me. I was left baby sitting him for a month while my mom and J went to see a “doctor” in the Middle East. He threatened to kill my son ( has hit him and pointed a knife to him ) and had said he wants to kill the kids in school and was giving me such stress that I ended up breaking down and needed medication for the stress. The things I’ve seen this boy done has led me to not want to be around him myslef and I wouldn’t have him stay with me.
My dad tried to fix this whole situation by not having them return to Canada ( read previous thread I made ), since they went when J and N were 2 and 3. 5. Since they arrived, it broke the relationship with everyone in the family and has caused my parents to split ( mom wanted dad to pay for Eveything and dad was too sick to do so, and help take care of J ).
His brothers from my dad side ( step dad ) have wanted to take him in, but once they heard about how bad he was, they changed their minds, plus my mom wouldn’t allow her N to be with his brothers from that side of the family.

I will go to therapy sister, I hate how our culture makes it seem like it’s useless and for crazy people.
He has threatened to call the police on her and when the one time I asked her to stop the beatings she went off on me and caused an argument. She tried to compare the one time I spanked my son to her constantly beating on N, as if thats the same thing.
 
Everyones talking about the mum but noones talking about ur brother?
Have u even talked to ur brother, asked him how he feels, Being trapped in a household of fear stunts a childs brain growth, and also destins them to act out later in life.
1.You should get some help for ur brother, idk what but just do, maybe tell him to do a martial art to relieve all his anger, maybe talk to him for an hour or 2 or something everyweek,
If u dont help ur brother hes gonna end up acting out now or later, ur older brother is cutting off family ties due to ur mothers behaviour and thats a major sin but ur brother feels like its justified bc of the pain ur mother caused, u should help out ur younger brothers issues
2.Have u made dua? Have u prayed tahaujudd or salatul istikhara on what to do, we tend to do all of the dunya stuff b4 we ask Allah, it should be the opposite way round, dua in the last third of the night is most likely to get accepted
3.U need to get other people involved, u obv dont sem to be able to help ur mum urself, so u may need to get family or someone ur mum would respect and listen to, and make alot of dua

But srs check on ur brother,
The thing I need to mention about N is that he’s incredibly violent towards me and my son. He had threatened to kill my son, and has hit him and I caught him with a knife pointed at him.
This boy has threatens to also wanna kill the kid’s in his school and has caused me immense stress from the time I took care of him for a month while my mom took J to the Middle East for a “doctor”.

I want to be sure I add those details about N since he has made my relationship with him very difficult due to the stress he put me through wile I watched him.
He has broken things in the house and blamed me and has stolen money from me.

I’ve tried everything in the beginning to help him but once he started treating me like shit and threatens to kill my son, I knew I had to separate my self from him.
The least I will do is try to stop the beatings to once I move away, and advice is all I’m asking for.
My old brother is wrong for that, but the things he went through with her, is somewhat justified.
Why in our culture and religion, if a parent has absurd you horribly, you must still be good to them ? It’s better to keep healthy distance in my opinion which he is doing.
The other things you’ve said are good and inshallah with dua I will overcome this.
 
There's a difference between discipline and senseless beatings/abuse. What your mom is doing is abuse. Islamically, we are not supposed to strike the face of a person (which your mom does) or be cruel and inflict permanent harm (which your mom also does). Discipline varies for children, some may only need verbal warnings whereas other need a physical punishment when they take things too far. Nevertheless, physical punishment should be a LAST RESORT after you've given multiple warnings and other punishments (such as taking away privileges). Most of the time, if a child is raised well and equip with logical thinking skills, you'll never have to resort to physical punishment.

You need to prioritize your son, get him out of the house and into a safe environment. Try your best to help your younger brother also, as responsibility of his well-being also falls upon you as his older sibling. Heed the previous advice given and may Allah keep you, your son and siblings safe.

Many of our parents have so much emotional baggage, trama and mental illness and they inflict their pain/issues onto us. May Allah help the Somali people.
As I mentioned before the relationship between N and I is strained since he is abusive and awful towards me as well. He has threatened harm towards my son, and I have tried to help him but he treats me bad too.
As I plan to move away, this is the only favour I will do for him, to make the beatings stop.
And your right about Islamically, it’s not right to hit someone to that extent and our parents have a lot of issues they weren’t taught how to properly execute.
These two boys mind you spent 10 years in Somalia so that’s explains their behaviour.
 
Hello everyone, I’m already up pretty late and wanted to ask about something serious.

If you read my previous post about my family situation then you’ll be familiar about what I’m going to say.
Can we have a serious discussion about what is labeled discipline or just plain child abuse in our community and culture ?

So I got these two younger brothers in the home, 14 ( J ) and 12 ( N ). J is severely autistic.

The stress of taking care of J has us all stressed but with my mother she takes that stress and often beats N.

Me and my other brothers who are a year apart and grew together were beat by our mother but my mother always said it was discipline and it was a good thing that she did.

But I often remember most of our beatings went too far and was often for things she was just mad about, very rarely for something we did wrong. It was so bad to the point my older brother ( 29 ), doesn’t talk to my mom anymore since this summer,( he said the beatings she gave him and verbal abuse really affected him and he doesn’t like talking to her and her arguing with him ). Hes also remembers about how she wouldn’t let him go back to school in his early twenties, and wanted him to stay home and pay all the bills and he moved out and went to college and graduated and got a good job mashallah.

So to see her constantly beating on N is really hard to see. She does it in front of my son who I’ve asked her to not do, but she continues to beat him all the time.

She beat him so badly on his face, he couldn’t start his first week of school, cause his face was all swollen and cuts everywhere, but eventually he did go to school, to which the assistant principle has asked me about to which I denied anything.

( Mind you he called cause N is acting really bad and doing bad in his grades and my mother denied him being bad and that the teachers are lying on her kid, thus the teachers calling me to ask about his behaviour ).
He’s a little demon himself and is awful to me but I’m not heartless and it’s awful seeing her beat him throughout the week.

Like I’m serious it’s multiple times a week since he’s come to Canada back in late 2020.

I’ve tried talking to her but she will fight with me and insist its discipline, but I tell her how it’s better to talk with him and give out smart punishments instead of beating on him really bad.

My friends I’ve asked about this and other relatives believe it or not have even suggested I call child services but I wouldn’t do that, but I would like something to be done so when I move away, I can know N is ok.

Why do some hoyoos do this and insist it’s good when tbh most people I’ve asked about this have said it did more harm and negative than good ?
I haven’t read your full post but I’ve read it partially and I will answer your last question. It depends, there’s a difference between discipline and Abuse. There’s a difference between what is normal behaviour or what is abnormal and abusive behaviour. If your children misbehave badly there’s nothing wrong with beating them as long as the beating doesn’t cause harm (it’s with a light object that doesn’t cause harm), the beating is a last resort and the beatings only happens occasionally, not often.

For example, if you have a small child who’s breaking the dishes and going crazy, I don’t think there’s any harm in slapping his arms lightly or hitting him with a tiny stick that only causes slight pain so he will learn his lesson and he will develop good conduct, right and wrong as he grows older. There’s a balance to everything and it isn’t black and White as you try to make it seem.

So yes, there’s a difference between Abuse and discipline and a mere beating does not fall under the category of Abuse. If a parent has anger issues though and they’re beating you at every opportunity and they’re beating you in a manner that causes psychological or physical harm then yes, that is Abuse and not discipline.
 
The thing I need to mention about N is that he’s incredibly violent towards me and my son. He had threatened to kill my son, and has hit him and I caught him with a knife pointed at him.
This boy has threatens to also wanna kill the kid’s in his school and has caused me immense stress from the time I took care of him for a month while my mom took J to the Middle East for a “doctor”.

I want to be sure I add those details about N since he has made my relationship with him very difficult due to the stress he put me through wile I watched him.
He has broken things in the house and blamed me and has stolen money from me.

I’ve tried everything in the beginning to help him but once he started treating me like shit and threatens to kill my son, I knew I had to separate my self from him.
The least I will do is try to stop the beatings to once I move away, and advice is all I’m asking for.
My old brother is wrong for that, but the things he went through with her, is somewhat justified.
Why in our culture and religion, if a parent has absurd you horribly, you must still be good to them ? It’s better to keep healthy distance in my opinion which he is doing.
The other things you’ve said are good and inshallah with dua I will overcome this.
Yes u have proved to me even more my point, he is violently lashing out the same violence his mother showed towards him to other people, and he will definitely do the same at school. Ive seen it alot at my school, and Ive experienced it myself. People abuse you and are violent towards you, and then a barrier in u heart is gone, u were shown no mercy, so now u show no mercy, u feel no remorse for doing disgusting stuff.
Seriously he needs an outlet for his violence, Try and get him into martial arts, try as hard as u can, this will teach him how to release his anger and also humble him bc we tend to act stupid and arrogant and do things that get us in trouble.

Next thing I would do is be merciful and kind to him and never be harsh or violent. Show him mercy and love in ur words, he may see u as weak at first or may not react well, even if u try to tell him not to do something u dont be too harsh, boys usually only respond well to other men telling them off. So try get your older brother to form a relationship aswell

The biggest factor for me changing my stupid life was the deen, and i believe that its very difficult unless someone has a good dunya reason to get out of a mindset without Allah, even if they do escape it, if its not for Allah, it will transfer to some other negative Habit. Dont send him to any islamic school or anything, maybe send him some islamic youtube videos about the basics of the religion, stuff like that, you know best, But u cant let go of alll the rage and anger unless u have Allah to guide u

You be making alot of dua, also ask ur brother to make dua,
Beware of the supplication of the oppressed, for there is no veil between it and Allah.

Source: Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī 4347, Grade: Muttafaqun Alayhi
If ur brothers being oppressed hsi dua is more likely to be answered.

Have patience, nothing is gonna be easy, u may feel like giving up, but if ur doing it for the sake od Allah and have yaqeen that Allah will answer ur dua he will never let you down.
 
Yes u have proved to me even more my point, he is violently lashing out the same violence his mother showed towards him to other people, and he will definitely do the same at school. Ive seen it alot at my school, and Ive experienced it myself. People abuse you and are violent towards you, and then a barrier in u heart is gone, u were shown no mercy, so now u show no mercy, u feel no remorse for doing disgusting stuff.
Seriously he needs an outlet for his violence, Try and get him into martial arts, try as hard as u can, this will teach him how to release his anger and also humble him bc we tend to act stupid and arrogant and do things that get us in trouble.

Next thing I would do is be merciful and kind to him and never be harsh or violent. Show him mercy and love in ur words, he may see u as weak at first or may not react well, even if u try to tell him not to do something u dont be too harsh, boys usually only respond well to other men telling them off. So try get your older brother to form a relationship aswell

The biggest factor for me changing my stupid life was the deen, and i believe that its very difficult unless someone has a good dunya reason to get out of a mindset without Allah, even if they do escape it, if its not for Allah, it will transfer to some other negative Habit. Dont send him to any islamic school or anything, maybe send him some islamic youtube videos about the basics of the religion, stuff like that, you know best, But u cant let go of alll the rage and anger unless u have Allah to guide u

You be making alot of dua, also ask ur brother to make dua,
Beware of the supplication of the oppressed, for there is no veil between it and Allah.

Source: Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī 4347, Grade: Muttafaqun Alayhi
If ur brothers being oppressed hsi dua is more likely to be answered.

Have patience, nothing is gonna be easy, u may feel like giving up, but if ur doing it for the sake od Allah and have yaqeen that Allah will answer ur dua he will never let you down.
Older brother is in different province and the other brother has a hard time with him as well. My mom won’t allow him to do to martial arts and I’ve suggested that as well for him to join a club or something. She is in denial about it his behaviour at school and won’t do nothing about it.

it’s hard to talk to him as he constantly lies and doesn’t know how to properly communicate. I’ve shown him kindness this past year and he abused it and it’s hard to even connect with him at this point, especially after he took a knife to my son.

I agree with what you’ve said about taking the violence from home and taking it in the school, and I’ve tried everything to corrrect this and tell my mom the violence here he is taking outside.

And btw he hates anything to do with the deen and says he wants to become gaalo. He hates Islamic lectures and anything to do with teaching the deen. So I guess being in Somalia all these years was for nothing cause it made him hate it.

InshaAllah everything will be ok though. I’ve talked to other older relatives about this and they’ve agreed that this isn’t the way to discipline a child.
 
Yes u have proved to me even more my point, he is violently lashing out the same violence his mother showed towards him to other people, and he will definitely do the same at school. Ive seen it alot at my school, and Ive experienced it myself. People abuse you and are violent towards you, and then a barrier in u heart is gone, u were shown no mercy, so now u show no mercy, u feel no remorse for doing disgusting stuff.
Seriously he needs an outlet for his violence, Try and get him into martial arts, try as hard as u can, this will teach him how to release his anger and also humble him bc we tend to act stupid and arrogant and do things that get us in trouble.

Next thing I would do is be merciful and kind to him and never be harsh or violent. Show him mercy and love in ur words, he may see u as weak at first or may not react well, even if u try to tell him not to do something u dont be too harsh, boys usually only respond well to other men telling them off. So try get your older brother to form a relationship aswell

The biggest factor for me changing my stupid life was the deen, and i believe that its very difficult unless someone has a good dunya reason to get out of a mindset without Allah, even if they do escape it, if its not for Allah, it will transfer to some other negative Habit. Dont send him to any islamic school or anything, maybe send him some islamic youtube videos about the basics of the religion, stuff like that, you know best, But u cant let go of alll the rage and anger unless u have Allah to guide u

You be making alot of dua, also ask ur brother to make dua,
Beware of the supplication of the oppressed, for there is no veil between it and Allah.

Source: Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī 4347, Grade: Muttafaqun Alayhi
If ur brothers being oppressed hsi dua is more likely to be answered.

Have patience, nothing is gonna be easy, u may feel like giving up, but if ur doing it for the sake od Allah and have yaqeen that Allah will answer ur dua he will never let you down.
I also mentioned that he hates anything to do with the deen and refuses to listen to lectures.
He also says he hates learning about the Quran and doesn’t agree with it and wants to become gaalo in the future.
He is not innocent in all of this and has made alot of trouble for my mom before she started really hitting him, but everything we tried to do to help him, he’s just refused to listen.
 
I also mentioned that he hates anything to do with the deen and refuses to listen to lectures.
He also says he hates learning about the Quran and doesn’t agree with it and wants to become gaalo in the future.
He is not innocent in all of this and has made alot of trouble for my mom before she started really hitting him, but everything we tried to do to help him, he’s just refused to listen.
Did he get educatd on Islam at all when he was young. was he forced to do any religious stuff?
 
Did he get educatd on Islam at all when he was young. was he forced to do any religious stuff?
He was in Somalia for 10 years. And he said how the duxii teachers would beat him a lot, and I think that’s the reason why he doesn’t like learning about the deen cause he associates it with the beatings he got in Somalia and the Islamic schools there.
 

Trending

Latest posts

Top