Ajuran sultanate: were they Somali?

Factz

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Do you have the original arabic manuscript?
Because in the english translation we see that he clearly states most of the inhabitants of zeila are rafida.

According to scholars like neville chittick and enrico cerulli the local language of mogadishu at the time of ibn battuta was bantu dialect similar to the language of barawa.

I have shown you the English translation. It states they followed the Shafi'i school and you can find in many other books using the word "Shafi'i". Shia is an English mistranslation.

I don't care what Neville Chittick and Enrico Cerulli said. They're outdated and have been debunked by modern scholars. One claims Mogadishu was a Swahili city-state and the other claims it was an Arab-Persian city-state. I have shown you references from the Cambridge History of Africa. Ibn Battuta stated that both Zeila and Mogadishu are inhabited by black Berbers and called it the land of Berbers then when he visited Kilwa, he called them Zanj and distinguished the Swahilis from the Somalis. Mogadishu spoke Af-Benadir which is a southern Somali dialect spoken by Abgaals in Mogadishu and Middle Shabelle region and Biyomaals in Merca even further in the interior like Hiraan region clans like Hawadle, Gaaljecel, and Gugundhabe also speak the dialect which is referred to as northern Benadir dialect.

Barawa was founded and ruled by Tunnis, a Somali (Rahanweyn) clan native to Lower Shabelle. Barawa spoke Af-Tunni. His name was Aw-Ali, a Tunni saint from the 9th century who founded the town.

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The immigrants would eventually settle later after it became a booming town.

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The origin of the Swahili dialect in Barawa:

Addressing the origins of this Swahili dialect in the Barawa of today, Hersi (1977), writes that, towards the end of the fifteenth century, a new group of Arab refugees from Spain wandered up and down the East African coast before finally settling in Barawa, and this, together with Barawa's strong trade ties with the south, may account for the Swahili linguistic ties. Other scholars maintain that the Swahili dialect called Chimini, spoken in Barawa, indicates that, the original population was strong enough to resist the influence of both Somali and Arabic. Oral traditions collected for this research support the former position

They could be afar, danakils are similar to us.

Look, man, I showed you well-renowned scholarly research for African history stating Zeila was predominantly Somali. Why do you still intend to throw around hogwash theories? Both Mogadishu and Zeila were of the same stock, end off.
 
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I have shown you the English translation. It states they followed the Shafi'i school, Shia was an English mistranslation.
This is the english translation of ibn battuta's work

"I then went from Aden by sea, and after four days came to the city of "Zaila. This is a city of the Berbers, a people of Soudan, of the Shifia sect. Their country is a desert of two months' extent. The first part is termed Zaila, the last Makdashü. The greatest part of the inhabitants of Zaila, however, are of the Räfiza sect. Their food is, for the most part, camel's flesh and fish. The stench of the country is extreme, as is also its filth, from the stink of the fish, and the blood of camels which are slaughtered in its streets."

I don't think it's mistranslation he clearly states most of the inhabitans of the city of zeyla were rafida.
 
Look man, I showed you a well-renowned scholary research for African history history stating Zeila was predominantly Somali. Why do you still intend to throw around hogwash theories? Both Mogadishu and Zeila were of same stock, end off.
The sources i shared clearly show zeyla was multi ethnic city in the 19th century.
It had arab, somali and danakili rulers before the english protectorate.
 

Factz

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This is the english translation of ibn battuta's work

"I then went from Aden by sea, and after four days came to the city of "Zaila. This is a city of the Berbers, a people of Soudan, of the Shifia sect. Their country is a desert of two months' extent. The first part is termed Zaila, the last Makdashü. The greatest part of the inhabitants of Zaila, however, are of the Räfiza sect. Their food is, for the most part, camel's flesh and fish. The stench of the country is extreme, as is also its filth, from the stink of the fish, and the blood of camels which are slaughtered in its streets."

I don't think it's mistranslation he clearly states most of the inhabitans of the city of zeyla were rafida.

It's obviously a mistranslation. Here is what The Archaeology of Islam in Sub-Saharan Africa page 59 stated which, by the way, is famous for the archaeological research on the Islamic history in the African continent and it corrects the translation.

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According to Reconstructing the History and Language of an African Society, 800-1500 page 39 states:

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The sources i shared clearly show zeyla was multi ethnic city in the 19th century.
It had arab, somali and danakili rulers before the english protectorate.

The source I showed was way before the 19th century stating Zeila was predominantly inhabited by Somalis despite Zeila being an extensive trade city that served the greater region of Ethiopia. The 19th century period is much different as it was dependent on Mocha and Zeila was a shadow of its former glory. However, the Afar ruler you're talking about overthrew Sharmarke with the help of a French incursion but years later Sharmarke came back and ousted the Afar French agent, and the source you shared stated Somalis were at the top implying they were the main inhabitants.
 
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Burton is also an eyewitness but you said he is unreliable
You can't compare burton an explorer to Dr philipp paulistchke a professional ethnographer who went to zeyla and harar to study the culture of the people of northeast africa.
 
You can't compare burton an explorer to Dr philipp paulistchke a professional ethnographer who went to zeyla and harar to study the culture of the people of northeast africa.
It seems you have a big bias bro. You accept one white guy over the other because it fits with your idea that somalis never had anything to do with ruling Zeila. The quote only says Arab were elite merchants and somalis were mostly nomads, but also suggests that somalis were the majority.
 
Well zeila was subject to mocha and sana'a for 400 years
And by the way if we are talking about 1800s this waa a time when Somalia in the North sere huge merchants, they traded with Yemen and Even livef in Aden to the point almost half of Aden was inhabited by somalis.
Now would you accept Aden as a Somali City just because we had huge numbers there? Of course not.
 
It seems you have a big bias bro.
I don't have anything against somalis, i'm somali.

You accept one white guy over the other because it fits with your idea that somalis never had anything to do with ruling Zeila.
I have never said that sxb, i know zeila was inhabited and ruled by somalis but you and @Factz were denying the role of afars and arabs in the history of zeila.
As for burton and paulistchke they were two totally different profiles, one want to harar to spy and the other was scholar.
 

Factz

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And by the way if we are talking about 1800s this waa a time when Somalia in the North sere huge merchants, they traded with Yemen and Even livef in Aden to the point almost half of Aden was inhabited by somalis.
Now would you accept Aden as a Somali City just because we had huge numbers there? Of course not.

Not only did the Somalis have a huge presence in Aden even 1/3 of Mocha were Somalis. They were considered elite merchants as Mocha's economy depended on Coffee exports and where did they get most of their Coffee from? That's right, Berbera. The French who visited Mocha called it "quartier des somalies" which means Somali neighbourhood in French.

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The Samaulies, who inhabit the whole coast from Gardafui to the Straits [Bab-el-Mandeb], and through whose territories the whole produce of the interior of Africa must consequently reach Arabia, have been represented by Mr. Bruce, and many others, as a savage race, with whom it would be dangerous to have connection. I think that this is an unjust accusation, and is sufficiently disproved by the extent of their inland trade, their great fairs, and their large exports in their own vessels. A great number of them live close to Mocha, and are a peaceable inoffensive race.[9]

In fact, 80% of the economies of Aden and Mocha depended on Berbera goods. The Somali merchants brought goods from their own boats and were considered the most valuable traders. It was no coincidence Somalis had a large presence in both of these towns.

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Factz

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I don't have anything against somalis, i'm somali.


I have never said that sxb, i know zeila was inhabited and ruled by somalis but you and @Factz were denying the role of afars and arabs in the history of zeila.
As for burton and paulistchke they were two totally different profiles, one want to harar to spy and the other was scholar.

When did I deny the role of anything? I admitted Zeila was Mocha dependency and admitted during its glory it was a multi-cultural city but at the same time, I have provided you with authentic sources that it was still majority Somali and still ruled by the natives. You made outrageous claims and I had to correct them. You are the only one here who likes to deny Somali history and culture and attach every credit to foreigners.
 
When did I deny the role of anything? I admitted Zeila was Mocha dependency and admitted during its glory it was a multi-cultural city but at the same time, I have provided you with authentic sources that it was still majority Somali and still ruled by the natives. You made outrageous claims and I had to correct them. You are the only one here who likes to deny Somali history and culture and attach every credit to foreigners.
You claimed the english translation was wrong here is the arabic text

وسافرت من مدينة عدن في البحر أربعة أيام، ووصلت إلى مدينة زيلع وهي مدينة البربرة، وهم طائفة من السودان شافعية المذهب، وبلادهم صحراء مسيرة شهرين أولها زيلع وآخرها مقدشو، ومواشيهم الجمال ولهم أغنام مشهورة السمن، وأهل زيلع سود الألوان وأكثرهم رافضة، وهي مدينة كبيرة لها سوق عظيمة، إلا أنها أقذر مدينة في المعمور وأوحشها وأكثرها نتنا، وسبب نتنها كثرة سمكها ودماء الإبل التي ينحرونها في الأزقة، ولما وصلنا إليها اخترنا المبيت بالبحر على شدة هوله ولم نبث بها لقذرها
 
Berbers of the ancient travelers can be oromo or afar, those two ethnic groups are known to cut the penises of their enemies.

والبربر أمة أخري لهم أرض في بحر الجنوب بين بلاد الحبشة وبلاد الزنج يقال لهم بربرة وهم سودان وهم الذين يجعلون مهر نسائهم أن يقطعو ذكر رجل ويسترقون وهم بالوحش اشبه منهم بالادميين

The berbers are another people whose country is situated upon the southern sea, between the districts of the abyssinians and those of the zinj; they are called berbers. They are blacks, and are the people who make the dower for wives by cutting of the virilia of a man(perhaps an enemy), and also steal. They are more like beasts than men.
 
I have seen many people say that the Ajuran Sultanate was ruled by people who came from the area we know today as Saudi Arabia and Yemen. I've also heard that nomadic Somalis were not allowed in cities at the time, which I tried to research, but there aren't many

Nobody is saying this. Ajuran is the name of an Ethnic Somali clan. The Ajuran being Somali have never been placed in doubt. That would make no sense, but i see you have a few confusions. So let me clear this up for you.

I also wouldn't take the Quraishi lineages literal, this origin story of Arab Sheikh related to the prophet marrying a native girl is shared by all Somali clans. It is no way indication of foreigners from Saudi or Yemen coming to rule the land.

Majority of the Urban Somalis who live in towns are by extension cut from the same lineage and cloth as the rural nomadic Somalis. Except they identify with the town they permanently live in more than their clan lineage and have social costums that revolves around town life. They are not nomads. The descendants of Ajuran, the Moorshe and Sheybow still live Xamarweyn part of the Reer Xamar clans

And as far as research is concerned, Benadiri tradition narate that both Ajuuran and Hawiye were settled in the town during it's founding. As Scott Reese research book about Benadir highlights: Renewers of the Age: Holy Men and Social Discourse in Colonial Benaadir

Amīn Khalifow a member of the pastoral Hawiye clan who settled in Mogadishu alongside the Morshow around the time of the town's founding.

The oldest clan being widely regarded as Ajuran (Morshow) by the city inhabitants:

The Murshow, widely regarded as Mogadishu's oldest clan, regard themselves as an offshoot of the Ajuran, a pastoral group popularly believed to have ruled the southern interior during the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries

You are correct however in that Nomadic Somalis were asked to leave the city after conducting their business during late hours, only Urban Somalis were allowed to stay. This was not to seperate the urban society from the pastoral majority, it was done to create a spatial and social boundary between two social-economic spheres. So they could better maintain social distinctiveness and economic advantage: Scott Reese who researched into Benadiri Somalis explains using examples from Benadiri Ayadarus book:

Aydarüs’s agenda here is not difficult to discern. Rather than attempting to separate urban society from the pastoral majority, his goal is to demonstrate the place of urban society as an integral, but distinctive, segment of Somali society. As noted earlier, urban Somalis traditionally followed a pattern of maintaining close links with the rural community, but at the same time closely guarding their own spatial and social boundaries.

In order to ensure that no unwanted rural visitors entered the city after dark, the towns were patrolled nightly by groups of armed militia drawn from the ranks of free male townsmen. Having said this, however, it is important to note that Benaadiris never sought to cut themselves off from rural society. Instead, their intention was to manage the urban–rural relationship in such a way as to maintain their own social distinctiveness and economic advantage.


Infact he goes on to explain that a rural person had to go through a re-socialization and integration process for them to be permitted to permanently settle in the city. Cites examples of exceptions as well.
 
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@Shimbiris issa are still expanding bro they are fighting with the afars today in the middle of the afar region .
Also burton is not reliable he has tendency to overstimate, as you said he claims that half of the population of harar was somali which is very doubtful as somalis are not anywhere near harar, when the egyptians made a census in harar somalis were 1000 in a town of 30000 inhabitants

The town of Harar never had 30k people within it especially during the 1800s. During that time there was 2500 permanently settled Somalis in a population of 8k-10k , and 3k was seasonal Somali semi -nomads(Bedouins).

The cultivating farming villages/neighborhoods near-connecting to the town was settled by Somalis living in dome shaped houses called Gambisa. So it's true Somalis were living around and inside the city of Harar and has been doing so for several centuries.

This is not only Burton reporting this, but also the The Journal of the Royal Geographical Society in 1855:

W. Badro Bari S , Sukutal Bari S.E. Harar contains a population of about 10,000 souls , including about 2500 Somal , and not including a considerable number of Gallas and other Bedouins

Also what you are saying about the Egyptian census is completely false, this is the information you find from the census the Egyptian made: Emirate, Egyptian, Ethiopian: Colonial Experiences in Late Nineteenth ..

At the heart of his initiative was a population census upon which he reported in April 1883, five months after the end of his term in Harar. The census estimated the total number of Oromo and Somalis living under the Harar administration during Nadi Pasha's terms to be between half a million and one million people.

The fact that the Somali population is so high, proves against what you are saying.
 
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THE town of Zayla (or Audal, as it is more usually called locally) is inhabited by three classes: (1) The original inhabitants of the town, who are called "Rer Audal," (2) Eesa Somál, (3) Gadabtúsi Somál.

The Rer Audal are a community of half-castes, the offspring of Arab settlers who have intermarried with Somáli, Habshi, or Dankali women. They speak both Arabic and Somáli, but generally prefer the latter.

Do you even read your own sources. It says the Urban Somalis in Zayla went by the Somali name for the town under the umbrella of Reer Awdal and spoke Somali which they prefer over Arabic. Very similar to urban Somali clans in Mogadishu who go by Reer Xamar and speak Somali. And as we know from previous posts that majority of Reer Xamar clans are from rural lineages, so it's a social-economic distinction between permanent settlers and the pastoral majority, not an ethnic or clan one.

I also wouldn't take the half caste assertion he makes seriously, orientalist writers at that time had a habit of making up their own ignorant theories about Somali origin being African- Arabian mixed half castes : As Burton does here:

Of this I have to observe, that universal tradition represents the Somal to be a people of half-caste origin, African and Arabian;

We now know that not to be true, they are actually cushitic speakers native to that part of the Horn of Africa. Not a mix of different group of natives with Arab.

The few revealing information we have on Zeyla population is by Burton and at the time of his visit in 1855. Zayla was a satellite town of Harar ruled by a Hawiye Qadi from Harar and was populated by mostly Somalis which he highlights by repeating ''Settled Somal'' and he differentiates from the nomadic Somalis he calls ''Badawi''(Bedouins/Nomads).

In Zayla there is not a single coffee - house . The settled Somal care little for the Arab beverage , and the Badawin's reasons for avoiding it are not bad .

Not only that but he also makes comparisons between Zayla and Harar and the social costumes of Somali population living within them.

Harar is essentially a commercial town: its citizens live, like those of Zayla, by systematically defrauding the Galla Bedouins,

Yet I have observed, that with all their passion for independence, the Somal, when subject to strict rule as at Zayla and Harar, are both apt to discipline and subservient to command.

Burton also points out that the Zayla population and not only married to but also depend on rural Bedouin people:

You will have remarked, dear L., that the people of Zayla are by no means industrious. They depend for support upon the Desert: the Bedouin becomes the Nazil or guest of the townsman, and he is bound to receive a little tobacco



@Shimbiris Dr. Philipp paulistchke a famous austrian ethnographer description of zeyla in 1885.

"The inhabitants of Zejla consist mainly of representatives of three races: Somâl, Danâkil and Arabs. Galla, Harari, Abyssinian, Suáhili, Indian, Turkic, Persian and European are represented by very few individuals. At the top are the Somal, they are a nomadic group. There are basically very few sedentary Somâl, but few Gadaburssi and and Habr Auál, have recently settled in the city or live there at least part of the year as permanent or occasional agents of their wild brothers. By far the largest part of the Somal appears in Zejla only occasionally when caravans arrive, or regularly, to sell products on the market. The same is true for the Danakil or Afar, who come from neighboring Tajura and Sagallo and take care of the transit business of this place with Zejla. Meanwhile, a great many Danakil flock here with the caravans, especially when the caravans from Shoah arrive. In Zejla the Arabs form the core of the better merchant class. They are Yemeni and Hadrami, mostly active and tolerant people whose manners already show that they have traveled a lot in the world. They naturally represent the cream of the population and feel superior to the black Somal and Danakil."

This is a snapshot of Zayla after the majority of the Urban population dispersed and left for Ethiopia and Djibouti due to colonial development. They were replaced by newer settlers, some brought by Egyptian, French and others brought by British. Notice how compared to earlier writings there is no mention of Reer Awdal and he says ''There are very few sedentary Somalis'' as well : The development that led to this is pointed out in A Pastoral Democracy: A Study of Pastoralism and Politics Among the Northern :


Many of the Zeila's former urban population - the Reer Seyla settled in Ethiopia and others moved to Jibuti. Thus the tenous thread of urban Zeila culture which had survived from the tenth century was severed and the British Protectorate lost a cosmopolitan and floursihing port which might have been as important as Mogadishu is to Somalia


This is the english translation of ibn battuta's work

"I then went from Aden by sea, and after four days came to the city of "Zaila. This is a city of the Berbers, a people of Soudan, of the Shifia sect. Their country is a desert of two months' extent. The first part is termed Zaila, the last Makdashü. The greatest part of the inhabitants of Zaila, however, are of the Räfiza sect. Their food is, for the most part, camel's flesh and fish. The stench of the country is extreme, as is also its filth, from the stink of the fish, and the blood of camels which are slaughtered in its streets."

I don't think it's mistranslation he clearly states most of the inhabitans of the city of zeyla were rafida.

@Factz is right it's a misinterpretation of of what Ibn Battuta actually says . Some have translated it to say rejecters and then extend it to mean Shia, the more correct translations of it says they are heretics ,which most likely means they have pagan costumes interwoven with their Islam.

He gives no mention to Rafida sect at all. https://sites.google.com/site/historyofeastafrica/ibn-battuta-mogadishu

''I took ship at Aden, and after four days at sea reached Zayla (Zeila, on the African coast), the town of the Berberah, who are a Negro people. Who are followers of the Iman al-Shafi.

Their land is a desert extending for two months' journey from Zayla to Maqdashaw (Mogadishu). Their beasts of burden are camels, and they possess sheep which are famous for their butter. The people are dark skinned and most people are rejecters (Shiite people who rejected the first three caliphs.)''


Whereas others translate it as:

Ibn Baţțūța visited also Mombasa , Zayla ' , where many of the people were heretics , ( perhaps descendants of earlier refugees ) , and Mogadishu

So it really is a subject of interpretation. There is no way they can be Shia's and also follow the Sunni Madhab of Imam-Al- Shafi. Use your brain.
 
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I have shown you the English translation. It states they followed the Shafi'i school and you can find in many other books using the word "Shafi'i". Shia is an English mistranslation.

I don't care what Neville Chittick and Enrico Cerulli said. They're outdated and have been debunked by modern scholars. One claims Mogadishu was a Swahili city-state and the other claims it was an Arab-Persian city-state. I have shown you references from the Cambridge History of Africa. Ibn Battuta stated that both Zeila and Mogadishu are inhabited by black Berbers and called it the land of Berbers then when he visited Kilwa, he called them Zanj and distinguished the Swahilis from the Somalis. Mogadishu spoke Af-Benadir which is a southern Somali dialect spoken by Abgaals in Mogadishu and Middle Shabelle region and Biyomaals in Merca even further in the interior like Hiraan region clans like Hawadle, Gaaljecel, and Gugundhabe also speak the dialect which is referred to as northern Benadir dialect.

Barawa was founded and ruled by Tunnis, a Somali (Rahanweyn) clan native to Lower Shabelle. Barawa spoke Af-Tunni. His name was Aw-Ali, a Tunni saint from the 9th century who founded the town.

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The immigrants would eventually settle later after it became a booming town.

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The origin of the Swahili dialect in Barawa:





Look, man, I showed you well-renowned scholarly research for African history stating Zeila was predominantly Somali. Why do you still intend to throw around hogwash theories? Both Mogadishu and Zeila were of the same stock, end off.

Sorry to jump in the middle of this topic not to hijack but trying to understand why is the somaali are working towards abolishing the BARAWA name and it's indigenous language that is spoken by the native inhabitant of that region? The Language of Chimwini ( Chimbalazi ) is older than the swahili Language that was "written in Arabic script, written in 1711 in the region of Kilwa, present-day Tanzania."

Not only that the Somaali are not only changing the name of BARAWA to "BARAAWEE" to make it sound more Somaali, and replacing the city names, and the inhabitant people of that region also to stop anyone who speak Chimwini and shut down their radio station Why?

This video i am about to share This man is not Barawa he also share very important historically about the language of Barawa. Before Swahili it was Chimbalazi that is the correct term when the Arabs arrive they called the inhabatine the "Coast people" in Arabic is Swahili and it's a Arabic word but the Correct way of saying Swahili, Is Chimbalazi or Chimwini.



I don't see how the Tuuni really fits in this historical narrative since the Original inhabitant of East africa were the Bushman and they spoke the bantu language which mean the first people to in count them were the BARAWA people (Arabs) way before the Islam arrive in East Africa and adopted their language. Tunnis is just one of Soomaal clan who came latter and their speak a different language then the Barawa people.
 

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