Addressing the finate sin infinite hell argument

[Internet Nomad]

One thing that I tend to notice that draw young Muslims from the deen is the fact that hell is unending. In this thread I would like to say some few points that I uses to explain the wisdom behind Allah's swt punishment.

1.In our societies we do not punish people for how long the crime is but how severe it is.For example shooting someone takes 1 second but would give you a long punishment.

2.In islam the greatest sin is to commit shirk... why is that? Well let me use a example to help you understand.We all can tell a human and a tree have different innate value as it would much greater sin to cut one down than the other.Well a human and Allah have much more greater difference in innate value.The only relationship we can have with such a entity is complete submission

3.Allah is the most knowledgeable and Just we can only put trust in Allah justice.Even if we can not understand the wisdom behind it.Just like how a child wouldn't understand the wisdom behind the judicial system.

 

[Boujie]

hell is only eternal for disbelievers and those that die upon shirk, so if you believe in god and did not do shirk then even if your sins outweigh your good deeds you will eventually go to jannah, ofcourse only god knows how long you'd spend in hell it could be a thousand years, a million years or a billion years even, but not eternity

 

[Sheikh Google]

hell is only eternal for disbelievers and those that die upon shirk, so if you believe in god and did not do shirk then even if your sins outweigh your good deeds you will eventually go to jannah, ofcourse only god knows how long you'd spend in hell it could be a thousand years, a million years or a billion years even, but not eternity

I always find the way the believer simplifies hell quite damning. A finite life/transgressions is deserving of infinite punishment. Considering the average human lives too what 80ish and we out here talking a million and a billion years of punishment of the most gruesome kind.

 

[Internet Nomad]

I always find the way the believer simplifies hell quite damning. A finite life/transgressions is deserving of infinite punishment. Considering the average human lives too what 80ish and we out here talking a million and a billion years of punishment of the most gruesome kind.

Punishment that is deemed worthy by the most intelligent and just.. maybe we are too human to understand it


Also I covered your points about the severity of the crime and not how long the sin was happening

 

[Omar del Sur]

I did a test the other day. I think I got... something like 6 out of 7. I think it was something like 85% when I got it in percent form.

Well... the result is eternal as far as I know. A thousand years from now, my score on the test will still be the same score.

The 80 or however many years we're given are a test. That we're given as much time as we're given is a mercy to us. I've never heard of someone taking a test and complaining that the result is set in stone. You take the test, you get your result back and you accept whatever is the result (excluding cases where they'll let you change the score with an extra-credit assignment or whatever).

So it's weird to me the logic of the argument. I don't think it's like buying or selling or like criminal justice on earth. I think it's more like getting back your test result. Look how evil people are. If you give the evil people a thousand years, I think they'll do evil for a thousand years. We're given our chance, we show what we're made of and then we're brought back to our Creator to be judged. The atheists constantly want to claim they are so much smarter for parroting what West tells them to parrot- yet when we do any sort of math, we're not using Roman numerals. We're using Arabic numerals. It was Muslims and Christians who built civilization. The modern-day atheists were just born after and inherited it and are driving it into the ground. If you're the grandchild of Genghis Khan and you simply inherit the empire, you don't get the same credit as Genghis Khan himself for having built the empire (putting his acts of criminality to the side).

 

[Bundasliga]

I always find the way the believer simplifies hell quite damning. A finite life/transgressions is deserving of infinite punishment. Considering the average human lives too what 80ish and we out here talking a million and a billion years of punishment of the most gruesome kind.

Its the same thing with heaven, a finite life & then getting eternal pleasure
The facts that hell & heaven are eternal should motivate/fear us enough to choose wisely.

 

[Sheikh Google]

Its the same thing with heaven, a finite life & then getting eternal pleasure
The facts that hell & heaven are eternal should motivate/fear us enough to choose wisely.

 

[asveros]

One thing that I tend to notice that draw young Muslims from the deen is the fact that hell is unending.

that isn't the problem. hell in itself is. an allmighty/powerful God doesn't need to eternally torture billions of people who he knew weren't gonna believe from the start. ontop of that he claims to be most merciful in the same breathe as telling people they'll burn repeatdly over and over if they dont believe. this is what makes people leave islam.

 

[Bundasliga]

How?
If it also were finite like our life then what's the point? I'd take nihilistic approach to it ,I wouldn't work for heaven & wouldn't fear hell as much .

 

[Ratchetandclank]

They deserve whatever Allah decides to give them. If I rob a bank and shoot someone I can gripe all I want about the consequences I'm still going to be doing 20 Years. That's just an Earthly matter, you really shouldn't worry too much about their Critique's, Since they never have logical contradictions it's mainly all emotional whining

 

[TekNiKo]

This always puzzled me shouldn't someone who commited sins for 90 years punished to infinity but the main reason I believe is that the soul is infinite energy and once created cannot truly die. We learn in Islam that animals have finite souls and once punished in heaven are removed from reality. Human beings apparently do not and have infinite souls that cannot taste death twice.

 

[Bundasliga]

that isn't the problem. hell in itself is. an allmighty/powerful God doesn't need to eternally torture billions of people who he knew weren't gonna believe from the start. ontop of that he claims to be most merciful in the same breathe as telling people they'll burn repeatdly over and over if they dont believe. this is what makes people leave islam.

God gave you the options & you choose your destination
If you don't like hell take everything in your power to not enter it

 

[Sheikh Google]

that isn't the problem. hell in itself is. an allmighty/powerful God doesn't need to eternally torture billions of people who he knew weren't gonna believe from the start. ontop of that he claims to be most merciful in the same breathe as telling people they'll burn repeatdly over and over if they dont believe. this is what makes people leave islam.

Nail meets the hammer. The biggest issue for me is the way Hell is glossed over by the believer. I could never get over that and how it is simplified as something trivial. Like damn sit down for a second and think Hell is infinite if you don't believe, like infinityyyyyy the human brain cant even conceive a billion years plus as we don't live that long but forever???. Does indoctrination rob us of our empathy?

 

[asveros]

God gave you the options & you choose your destination
If you don't like hell take everything in your power to not enter it

don't have time to worry about that saxib, paying off my student loans is more important.

Nail meets the hammer. The biggest issue for me is the way Hell is glossed over by the believer. I could never get over that and how it is simplified as something trivial. Like damn sit down for a second and think Hell is infinite if you don't believe, like infinityyyyyy the human brain cant even conceive a billion years plus as we don't live that long but forever???. Does indoctrination rob us of our empathy?

they barely register those verses talking about the harshness and unimaginable pain disbelievers will undergo because they think theyre safe from it. and rather focus on heavens description since islam deprives them off basic needs they long for an eternity of it.

 

[Bundasliga]

don't have time to worry about that saxib, paying off my student loans is more important.

Keep the same energy all times

 

[TheManWhoIsAlive]

One thing that I tend to notice that draw young Muslims from the deen is the fact that hell is unending. In this thread I would like to say some few points that I uses to explain the wisdom behind Allah's swt punishment.

1.In our societies we do not punish people for how long the crime is but how severe it is.For example shooting someone takes 1 second but would give you a long punishment.

2.In islam the greatest sin is to commit shirk... why is that? Well let me use a example to help you understand.We all can tell a human and a tree have different innate value as it would much greater sin to cut one down than the other.Well a human and Allah have much more greater difference in innate value.The only relationship we can have with such a entity is complete submission

3.Allah is the most knowledgeable and Just we can only put trust in Allah justice.Even if we can not understand the wisdom behind it.Just like how a child wouldn't understand the wisdom behind the judicial system.

I'm one of those guys who had issues about the problem of Hell, but what you've said makes a lot of sense.

When you think about the possible outcomes of death, we come to see that if God exists as we understand Him to exist, then the punishment He defines as just logically must be based on a form of divine knowledge most likely beyond our comprehension.

If there is no God and nothing happens when we die, then it doesn't matter anyway.

So logically, you should live as if God exists, as you will not be able to adequately predict the ramifications of said Being's existence.

 

[Internet Nomad]

Allah SWT says in (Al Quran 6:27)If you couldst but see [them] when they will be made to stand before the fire and will say, "Oh, would that we were brought back [to life]: then we would not give the lie to our Sustainer's messages, but would be among the believers!" ….and if they were brought back [to life], they would return to the very thing which was forbidden to them: for behold, they are indeed liars!

A unending sin would receive a ending punishment.

that isn't the problem. hell in itself is. an allmighty/powerful God doesn't need to eternally torture billions of people who he knew weren't gonna believe from the start. ontop of that he claims to be most merciful in the same breathe as telling people they'll burn repeatdly over and over if they dont believe. this is what makes people leave islam.

 

[Dads]

One thing that I tend to notice that draw young Muslims from the deen is the fact that hell is unending. In this thread I would like to say some few points that I uses to explain the wisdom behind Allah's swt punishment.

1.In our societies we do not punish people for how long the crime is but how severe it is.For example shooting someone takes 1 second but would give you a long punishment.

2.In islam the greatest sin is to commit shirk... why is that? Well let me use a example to help you understand.We all can tell a human and a tree have different innate value as it would much greater sin to cut one down than the other.Well a human and Allah have much more greater difference in innate value.The only relationship we can have with such a entity is complete submission

3.Allah is the most knowledgeable and Just we can only put trust in Allah justice.Even if we can not understand the wisdom behind it.Just like how a child wouldn't understand the wisdom behind the judicial system.

Don’t you think we all go to hell
Whether it’s this world or the next ?

 

[HiraanBorn]

Allah SWT says in (Al Quran 6:27)If you couldst but see [them] when they will be made to stand before the fire and will say, "Oh, would that we were brought back [to life]: then we would not give the lie to our Sustainer's messages, but would be among the believers!" ….and if they were brought back [to life], they would return to the very thing which was forbidden to them: for behold, they are indeed liars!

A unending sin would receive a ending punishment.

They question the wisdom and logic of the one who created them as if they could be better judges than he. Soon we will know who was right and who was wrong in the end.

 

[Internet Nomad]

No.

Don’t you think we all go to hell
Whether it’s this world or the next ?