Does Diin la'aan Lead to Dhiig la'aan

Also this poem was recited by Ugaas Nuur in 1887 when the Abyssinians invaded and took over Harar:

"Tolkayow xalay taah ma ladin toosna maan qabin eh.
Nimankaas taagani waxay igu talaaleene .
Togi Herer Axmaaraa dul tagay oo dilay dadkeeniiye
Islaamkiina wuu wada tirtiray baa inoo timid eh
Taawooday oo xalay hurdadii tow ka soo idhiye."


Can't translate this as the language is a bit difficult

Generalissimo said:

Care to explain mudane?

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They're cadaan bootyclappers for lack of a better term

Bahal said:

They're cadaan bootyclappers for lack of a better term

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What's your opinion about agnostic Somalis?

AussieHustler said:

Justathought


Sxb, wow just wow, historical revisionism would have been great in sowing doubts (in the long past history) about the mainstream accepted history, but millions of Somalis are still alive who witnessed all or portions of our history since independence. It is a well known fact that most Somalis didn’t practice Islam other than fasting Ramadan and eid prayers. Even during Ramadan, people ate and puffed cigerattes without being labelled “murtads”. Alcohol consumption, bars, nightclubs were available and romantic relationships were openly displayed by couples who weren’t married. Religious differences were tolerated where Somali Christians openly attended and prayed in their churches. Women rarely wore hijabs. Sxb, these were the facts about Somalis and their toleration towards lax-Muslims and non-Muslim Somalis. Yet, they were considered Somalis through and through because the majority of them were the most educated and the professional elite.

Fast forward to the revolution in 1969 where the new regime pursued an ideology of scientific socialism aka communism. Step by step all laws that were compatible to the spirit of Islam were eroded. Thousands of officers were sent to the Soviet Union and other Warsaw Pact member states. These officers brought with them ideological allegiance to communism. They were known to be social drinkers and many of them were atheists. Somalia was a producer of alcohol and Somalis tolerated it. Females played all sorts of sports dressed like their male counterparts and they were not only tolerated but accepted. Arguably, it was a period when somalinimo was its peak till the advent of Wahhabism.

When Wahhabism and Islamism appeared in our horizon, it was the beginning of the end of our toleration towards one another. With islamism its height in Somalia, anarchy ensued. Marka, tell me, which era would you have picked? Enough with this childish revisionism.

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Talk about historic revisionism at it's best Somalis have always been against gaalinmo yes Somalis were never practicing Muslims but they were always against gaalo and know you're saying Somalis openly practiced sex this has to be your dumbest lie yet you're talking about the same Somalis who married their women at the age of 14 the same Somalis who wouldn't let women eat or the children until the man eats if a woman would even dare to have sex outside marriage she would be lynched by her family

government said:

Talk about historic revisionism at it's best Somalis have always been against gaalinmo yes Somalis were never practicing Muslims but they were always against gaalo and know you're saying Somalis openly practiced sex this has to be your dumbest lie yet you're talking about the same Somalis who married their women at the age of 14 the same Somalis who wouldn't let women eat or the children until the man eats if a woman would even dare to have sex outside marriage she would be lynched by her family

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Guv

You are mixing Somali nomadic patrichal tradition with the existence of non-Muslim Somalis who were not only tolerated but viewed as patriotic Somalis. You couldn’t debunk the points that I raised above, but resorted to ad-hominem and scrippled for us few examples of the Somali traditional patriarchal customs. Till now, Somali women eat the leftovers of men including young boys who their little sisters have to wait in the kitchen to eat their leftovers, was it based on Islam? That is ridiculous. Secondly, if Somalis were against gaalo, why did we have churches in Somalia who openly prothylised and converted Somalis? In terms of marriages, legally, the marriage age was 18 for both genders though 16 year olds were allowed on the consent of their guardians. But since most Somalis were poor and illiterates, they didn’t bother to register the birth of their children or marriages and thus got away marrying at a younger age. Sxb, this hoopla of Islam and Somali are synonymous has its roots on the rise of islamism.

Justathought said:

Aussie I know of family today who've spent their entire lives in baadiyo who don't even know the shahadah but they say they are Muslim. Being a bad Muslim or being ignorant doesn't mean you're not a Muslim. As it pertains to atheists unless they were out prosletyzing or insulting the deen then i'm sure they were left alone. We all have old school family members who are very irreligious who knows what they believe?
This entire argument wasnt the point of my thread.

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That is true, but imagine going out in public in mogadishu saying abusive stuff about Islam they will destory you. Unless if you take white man protection like ayaan hirsi your lies would be exposed. It is better to not know islam 100% than to be gaal in the middle of the street there is a barrier between maglad and badiyo.

I have noticed the unbelieving families are stable, employed, high IQ, peaceful, law abiding and generally happy families. This is not the case for the believing families; they are the complete opposite of those things.

My family is all those things and are believers but are the anomaly.

AussieHustler said:

Guv

You are mixing Somali nomadic patrichal tradition with the existence of non-Muslim Somalis who were not only tolerated but viewed as patriotic Somalis. You couldn’t debunk the points that I raised above, but resorted to ad-hominem and scrippled for us few examples of the Somali traditional patriarchal customs. Till now, Somali women eat the leftovers of men including young boys who their little sisters have to wait in the kitchen to eat their leftovers, was it based on Islam? That is ridiculous. Secondly, if Somalis were against gaalo, why did we have churches in Somalia who openly prothylised and converted Somalis? In terms of marriages, legally, the marriage age was 18 for both genders though 16 year olds were allowed on the consent of their guardians. But since most Somalis were poor and illiterates, they didn’t bother to register the birth of their children or marriages and thus got away marrying at a younger age. Sxb, this hoopla of Islam and Somali are synonymous has its roots on the rise of islamism.

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Your right because somalis were kafir before Islam maybe worshipping a equivelent lat and uzza, you know heer law which is somali tradtional law has some time of ignorance in it.

But when Churches were made it was made during white man period during colonisation, colonistation for your info is you can't stop white man building stuff on your land. Somali Mujahids stopped the white man like the dervishes, which later inspired Omar Muktar to fight the italians in libya.

Again the legal age was made to secularize people as usual somali people marry their daughters in young ages for reason like to much children to feed and care or more reasons.

AbdiJew said:

I have noticed the unbelieving families are stable, employed, high IQ, peaceful, law abiding and generally happy families. This is not the case for the believing families; they are the complete opposite of those things.

My family is all those things and are believers but are the anomaly.

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That is sorta a baised view, but since you use morality

Suárez said:

That is sorta a baised view, but since you use morality

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We all know this is to be true. I'm the only one who speaks the truth here.

sosomali said:

Also this poem was recited by Ugaas Nuur in 1887 when the Abyssinians invaded and took over Harar:

"Tolkayow xalay taah ma ladin toosna maan qabin eh.
Nimankaas taagani waxay igu talaaleene .
Togi Herer Axmaaraa dul tagay oo dilay dadkeeniiye
Islaamkiina wuu wada tirtiray baa inoo timid eh
Taawooday oo xalay hurdadii tow ka soo idhiye."


Can't translate this as the language is a bit difficult

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Ugaas nuur cabudiye was reer abdulle ogadeen that man although he loved fighting he wrote very nicd gabays.

Yes I did notice that most of the athiests here seem to put anything western and white to a pedestal. They'll defend all their wrong-doings and somehow twist it and call you ungrateful.
They talk like uncle ruckus basically.

Suarez

Sxb, we are discussing post colonial Somalia and Islam. As for the Somali Xeeyr, some are sourced or are compatible with Islamic law like blood money compensations and family law. There was also a secular element to it. No beheadings, stoning, limp chopping, cliff throwing deaths of homosexuals, killing or harassing murtads. You wouldn’t live under Alshabaab’s rule because of their extremist and harsh laws and they are closer to the Islamic Laws that Mohamed practiced in Yathrib/Medina. I think laws suck, don’t they? But it is the necessary evil that we have to uphold and live under it.

AussieHustler said:

Suarez

Sxb, we are discussing post colonial Somalia and Islam. As for the Somali Xeeyr, some are sourced or are compatible with Islamic law like blood money compensations and family law. There was also a secular element to it. No beheadings, stoning, limp chopping, cliff throwing deaths of homosexuals, killing or harassing murtads. You wouldn’t live under Alshabaab’s rule because of their extremist and harsh laws and they are closer to the Islamic Laws that Mohamed practiced in Yathrib/Medina. I think laws suck, don’t they? But it is the necessary evil that we have to uphold and live under it.

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Please qoute me so i can reply

Xeer law came from ingorance the qureash even used to do diya or blood money. Shariah law has a process somecase takes two years or longer not two seconds to have a final word.

The Prophet used to allow the christains and jews to apply there own hadd to their own people. Even the kaffir knows breaking an oath is bad and even being a apostate.

Its just people are not happy with there lives because of the western potray of freedom which is alchol, drugs, rap and pleasure in fact and reality you wont be happy in the end you will feel a hole in your heart.

You can't exepect everything your way, you can't say i am gonna make the sky rain.

Enough said.

Suárez said:

Ugaas nuur cabudiye was reer abdulle ogadeen that man although he loved fighting he wrote very nicd gabays.

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Actually this was the Samaroon Ugaas Nuur.

Ugaas Nuur Ugaas Rooble

sosomali said:

Actually this was the Samaroon Ugaas Nuur.

Ugaas Nuur Ugaas Rooble

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I heard of ugaas nuur cabudiye he was also a poet too.

But the legendary gabays are by Sayyid Muxamad

Suarez

Sxb, I don't share with you the sanitised version of Islamic history and in particular Mohamed's dealings with non-Muslim and in particular with the Jews of Yathrib/Medina, so be patient with me.

Suárez said:

Please qoute me so i can reply

Xeer law came from ingorance the qureash even used to do diya or blood money. Shariah law has a process somecase takes two years or longer not two seconds to have a final word..

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Sxb, if Islamic Law was a wonderful law and far better than "man-made laws", why can't the Muslims adopt it and live in a sort of a nirvana world? From the Taliban, Boko Haram, Alshabab and in between, States like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Sudan and others have adopted Shariah Laws and you and other Muslims would prefer to live in the "decadent" West than live under the Shariah Laws of these countries. I heard Somalis counter argue that these countries don't live under genuine Shariah Laws, if you take that line, do you think a Somali is more religious and pious than the Ulema of these countries and can come up with a better functioning Islamic Laws? Muslims and in particular those in the West give lip services to Islamic Laws, but none of them would live under such Laws.

Suárez said:

The Prophet used to allow the christains and jews to apply there own hadd to their own people. Even the kaffir knows breaking an oath is bad and even being a apostate.

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Sxb, I expected you to say this and more like Mohamed treated non-Muslims like his family, but the facts are quiet the contrary. Mohamed, after he fled in the middle of the night from his Qureish clan who wanted to kill him, he was warmly welcomed by the Jews of Yathrib/Medina who thought this weird bloke claiming to be a prophet believed in monotheism like them and gave him and his few followers asylum. They told him that he can rule his flock on his religion and they on Halakha/Judaism. He borrowed Jewish Laws when there was none he could offer his Muslim followers as they were more advanced than him because of the centuries it took them to gather this knowledge. However, as Mohamed's followers started to grow, his stature as a heavyweight power-broker grew. His sole aim was to gather enough soldiers and wage war against his Qureish clan in Mecca and its surroundings. This disturbed the Jews who by now felt that they were inferior in numbers and had no stomach in Mohamed's lust for bloodshed and revenge. They kindly asked Mohamed to abstain from his battles against his Tribe. The result was carnage and the First holocaust of the Jews. Sxb, that was the undiluted history of Mohamed and the Jews.

Suárez said:

Its just people are not happy with there lives because of the western potray of freedom which is alchol, drugs, rap and pleasure in fact and reality you wont be happy in the end you will feel a hole in your heart.

You can't exepect everything your way, you can't say i am gonna make the sky rain.

Enough said.

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Sxb, yes, there are freedoms in the west and some of it are catastrophic and the choice is on the individual. The home is the school and the governments. If parents don't raise their children proper, they will be lost to outside influences. If that person had proper upbringing, they will succeed and become a person who contributes to society. The West is not a big orgy of drugs, alcohol and decadence. That portrayal is dishonest. On the other note, I'm more happier than someone who is religious. Though I don't drink, smoke or use drugs, I'm not worried of a "God" and his "Hell" and cry begging him every day. I don't view every little unexplained thing from the perspective of religion and chase its meaning from religious scholars who are less educated than a science teacher.

Our parents have migrated to the Western world and 100's of millions of Muslims would migrate if given the chance because though the Laws in Norway and elsewhere in the West aren't perfect, but they are damn better than Shariah Laws or any Laws in the Muslim world.

AussieHustler said:

Suarez

Sxb, I don't share with you the sanitised version of Islamic history and in particular Mohamed's dealings with non-Muslim and in particular with the Jews of Yathrib/Medina, so be patient with me.



Sxb, if Islamic Law was a wonderful law and far better than "man-made laws", why can't the Muslims adopt it and live in a sort of a nirvana world? From the Taliban, Boko Haram, Alshabab and in between, States like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Sudan and others have adopted Shariah Laws and you and other Muslims would prefer to live in the "decadent" West than live under the Shariah Laws of these countries. I heard Somalis counter argue that these countries don't live under genuine Shariah Laws, if you take that line, do you think a Somali is more religious and pious than the Ulema of these countries and can come up with a better functioning Islamic Laws? Muslims and in particular those in the West give lip services to Islamic Laws, but none of them would live under such Laws.



Sxb, I expected you to say this and more like Mohamed treated non-Muslims like his family, but the facts are quiet the contrary. Mohamed, after he fled in the middle of the night from his Qureish clan who wanted to kill him, he was warmly welcomed by the Jews of Yathrib/Medina who thought this weird bloke claiming to be a prophet believed in monotheism like them and gave him and his few followers asylum. They told him that he can rule his flock on his religion and they on Halakha/Judaism. He borrowed Jewish Laws when there was none he could offer his Muslim followers as they were more advanced than him because of the centuries it took them to gather this knowledge. However, as Mohamed's followers started to grow, his stature as a heavyweight power-broker grew. His sole aim was to gather enough soldiers and wage war against his Qureish clan in Mecca and its surroundings. This disturbed the Jews who by now felt that they were inferior in numbers and had no stomach in Mohamed's lust for bloodshed and revenge. They kindly asked Mohamed to abstain from his battles against his Tribe. The result was carnage and the First holocaust of the Jews. Sxb, that was the undiluted history of Mohamed and the Jews.




Sxb, yes, there are freedoms in the west and some of it are catastrophic and the choice is on the individual. The home is the school and the governments. If parents don't raise their children proper, they will be lost to outside influences. If that person had proper upbringing, they will succeed and become a person who contributes to society. The West is not a big orgy of drugs, alcohol and decadence. That portrayal is dishonest. On the other note, I'm more happier than someone who is religious. Though I don't drink, smoke or use drugs, I'm not worried of a "God" and his "Hell" and cry begging him every day. I don't view every little unexplained thing from the perspective of religion and chase its meaning from religious scholars who are less educated than a science teacher.

Our parents have migrated to the Western world and 100's of millions of Muslims would migrate if given the chance because though the Laws in Norway and elsewhere in the West aren't perfect, but they are damn better than Shariah Laws or any Laws in the Muslim world.

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They wouldn't be able to write on computers if they had to be punished for their sins under Sharia law.

AussieHustler said:

Suarez

Sxb, I don't share with you the sanitised version of Islamic history and in particular Mohamed's dealings with non-Muslim and in particular with the Jews of Yathrib/Medina, so be patient with me.



Sxb, if Islamic Law was a wonderful law and far better than "man-made laws", why can't the Muslims adopt it and live in a sort of a nirvana world? From the Taliban, Boko Haram, Alshabab and in between, States like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Sudan and others have adopted Shariah Laws and you and other Muslims would prefer to live in the "decadent" West than live under the Shariah Laws of these countries. I heard Somalis counter argue that these countries don't live under genuine Shariah Laws, if you take that line, do you think a Somali is more religious and pious than the Ulema of these countries and can come up with a better functioning Islamic Laws? Muslims and in particular those in the West give lip services to Islamic Laws, but none of them would live under such Laws.



Sxb, I expected you to say this and more like Mohamed treated non-Muslims like his family, but the facts are quiet the contrary. Mohamed, after he fled in the middle of the night from his Qureish clan who wanted to kill him, he was warmly welcomed by the Jews of Yathrib/Medina who thought this weird bloke claiming to be a prophet believed in monotheism like them and gave him and his few followers asylum. They told him that he can rule his flock on his religion and they on Halakha/Judaism. He borrowed Jewish Laws when there was none he could offer his Muslim followers as they were more advanced than him because of the centuries it took them to gather this knowledge. However, as Mohamed's followers started to grow, his stature as a heavyweight power-broker grew. His sole aim was to gather enough soldiers and wage war against his Qureish clan in Mecca and its surroundings. This disturbed the Jews who by now felt that they were inferior in numbers and had no stomach in Mohamed's lust for bloodshed and revenge. They kindly asked Mohamed to abstain from his battles against his Tribe. The result was carnage and the First holocaust of the Jews. Sxb, that was the undiluted history of Mohamed and the Jews.




Sxb, yes, there are freedoms in the west and some of it are catastrophic and the choice is on the individual. The home is the school and the governments. If parents don't raise their children proper, they will be lost to outside influences. If that person had proper upbringing, they will succeed and become a person who contributes to society. The West is not a big orgy of drugs, alcohol and decadence. That portrayal is dishonest. On the other note, I'm more happier than someone who is religious. Though I don't drink, smoke or use drugs, I'm not worried of a "God" and his "Hell" and cry begging him every day. I don't view every little unexplained thing from the perspective of religion and chase its meaning from religious scholars who are less educated than a science teacher.

Our parents have migrated to the Western world and 100's of millions of Muslims would migrate if given the chance because though the Laws in Norway and elsewhere in the West aren't perfect, but they are damn better than Shariah Laws or any Laws in the Muslim world.

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The amount of historic revisionism in your post is unbelievable first of all the Jews didn't welcome the prophet secondly the prophet had made a trace with them that everyone on of them broke and they even tried to kill the prophet and work with quraish against him I don't know where you get your information from but it's absolutely wrong and the fact thar you think Somalis tolerated gaalo is absurd is it some kinda of cooping mechanism that you made for yourself because your family didn't accept you

AussieHustler said:

Suarez

Sxb, I don't share with you the sanitised version of Islamic history and in particular Mohamed's dealings with non-Muslim and in particular with the Jews of Yathrib/Medina, so be patient with me.



Sxb, if Islamic Law was a wonderful law and far better than "man-made laws", why can't the Muslims adopt it and live in a sort of a nirvana world? From the Taliban, Boko Haram, Alshabab and in between, States like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Sudan and others have adopted Shariah Laws and you and other Muslims would prefer to live in the "decadent" West than live under the Shariah Laws of these countries. I heard Somalis counter argue that these countries don't live under genuine Shariah Laws, if you take that line, do you think a Somali is more religious and pious than the Ulema of these countries and can come up with a better functioning Islamic Laws? Muslims and in particular those in the West give lip services to Islamic Laws, but none of them would live under such Laws.



Sxb, I expected you to say this and more like Mohamed treated non-Muslims like his family, but the facts are quiet the contrary. Mohamed, after he fled in the middle of the night from his Qureish clan who wanted to kill him, he was warmly welcomed by the Jews of Yathrib/Medina who thought this weird bloke claiming to be a prophet believed in monotheism like them and gave him and his few followers asylum. They told him that he can rule his flock on his religion and they on Halakha/Judaism. He borrowed Jewish Laws when there was none he could offer his Muslim followers as they were more advanced than him because of the centuries it took them to gather this knowledge. However, as Mohamed's followers started to grow, his stature as a heavyweight power-broker grew. His sole aim was to gather enough soldiers and wage war against his Qureish clan in Mecca and its surroundings. This disturbed the Jews who by now felt that they were inferior in numbers and had no stomach in Mohamed's lust for bloodshed and revenge. They kindly asked Mohamed to abstain from his battles against his Tribe. The result was carnage and the First holocaust of the Jews. Sxb, that was the undiluted history of Mohamed and the Jews.




Sxb, yes, there are freedoms in the west and some of it are catastrophic and the choice is on the individual. The home is the school and the governments. If parents don't raise their children proper, they will be lost to outside influences. If that person had proper upbringing, they will succeed and become a person who contributes to society. The West is not a big orgy of drugs, alcohol and decadence. That portrayal is dishonest. On the other note, I'm more happier than someone who is religious. Though I don't drink, smoke or use drugs, I'm not worried of a "God" and his "Hell" and cry begging him every day. I don't view every little unexplained thing from the perspective of religion and chase its meaning from religious scholars who are less educated than a science teacher.

Our parents have migrated to the Western world and 100's of millions of Muslims would migrate if given the chance because though the Laws in Norway and elsewhere in the West aren't perfect, but they are damn better than Shariah Laws or any Laws in the Muslim world.

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1- The freedom of practicing Sharia law is limited because of the Muslim not bother applying it properly and also the Western world is stopping us and wanting to apply secular law.

2- A historical mistake it was actually the pagan tribes of Yathrib (Aws and khazraj) leaders made sahadah before even the prophet migrated to Yathrib. The Jews awaited the prophecy but rejected him because he was Arab. When the leaders make sahadah their whole tribe will became Muslim.

3- Why Allah law is greater it makes everything equal, just and fair. Many cases of secular law causing injustice. Take imperial Britian, Secular Turkey and Siyad Barre Somalia. Compare to to the 4 rightly guided Khalifs.

4- The cases of islamist groups they don't apply hadd properly, they don't believe in cudur bil Jahilliyah they kill anyone they see without witness or reason.

5- Saudi Arabia have so much issues, they have already made Haram laws them selves like Ribaa. Their leaders drink and eat haram and are unfit to rule. They take the kuffar as wali.

6- A bigger mistake is Jews laws were once the law of Musa peace be upon him. They have similar laws but the yahuud can't tell the difference between the revelation of God and the Talmud.