On sumado

M

Midas

I've been thinking about this recently and the more i think about it The more idea that sumado are just "clan markings" or for branding camel ownership Is kinda ridculous. We have a set of 20 something symbols that look like letters and we have names for each of them. Doesn't that strike you as very odd if it was just a marking ? Why wouldn't every clan just have a unique symbol like you see with arab clan flags or the Japanese noble clans ?

There's also the fact that people also put these symbols on objects and we find them in the environment on walls and graves. The closest thing I've seen to something that looks like sumado is the amazigh scripts from North Africa still used by the nomads like the tuaregs .
 
M

Midas

Plus I bet if knowledge of this script had survived then there's probably some connection to these secret Harari scripts especially since it seems like harar was the last refuge of urban somalis living in the galbeed after the other towns collapsed. I really wish somebody who lives there would look more into this.

Maintainnnin said:
It seems to be more indigenous writing scripts than we may have even thought in the Horn, found this from a book titled History of Harar and the Hararis.

Thought I would share since Somalis are part of the history of Harar, and have made significant contributions.

Link to book: https://everythingharar.com/files/History_of_Harar_and_Harari-HNL.pdf
View attachment 260773View attachment 260774View attachment 260775View attachment 260776
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Shimbiris

Shimbiris

بىَر غىَل إيؤ عآنؤ لؤ
VIP
Interesting. So they're basically a set of ideograms or logograms that people use to mark livestock, furniture and other things? Basically proto-writing like Nsibidi by the looks of it.

Gaban said:
Precisely, brother, you can't have a term for something in a society if it didn't exist in that society or culture, hence Somalis having words for/in reference to writing is proof that there was writing. We did borrow a lot from Arabs due to their proximity, but those words are easily decipherable that they are indeed of Arab origin, unlike the few examples the author of Af-dhaab gave.

Summads have a vital role in Somali culture in general, and they provide us so many ideas of what people used to believe in(Some religious subs of Shiikhaal put a summad that looks close to a cross and given they are the culumo of Somaliweyn it raises many questions); what legends accompany these signs? Looking at the summad they use, where did particular people come from? it can even tell us of migration patterns of clans for example in mudug where Majeerten live there are 2 wells previously owned by Xawaadle and Abgaal darandole that has their clan marking on them that they still use today but today Majeerteen drinks those wells and Xawaadle and Abgaal are nowhere near that land. And with this, you might even wonder 'if Xawaadle and Abgaal were present in Mudug at the same time at some point and now are in hiiraan and shabeelaha dhexe together what is the special relationship that causes them to keep settling near each other despite not claiming each other by lineage?' Summads were always interesting to me from a young age as they habour lots of maning.

To address your question about whether these summado had meaning, they do, and they have a lot of meaning. They were most likely our alphabet. The same way that people in the modern world use shapes or phrases to mark objects, it was the same back then. Even today, if you visit Somalia, you will see animals marked with numbers or names in ink rather than the customary iron burn so it must have been the same back then as this is a custom that was passed down.
Summado are used for hundreds of purposes from animal marking to even marking a digsi. Back in baadiyo we had a pot named digsi udub leh meaning the pot with many markings and the same udub sign is used on animals, wells, trees near graves to mark a grave, tools etc.

The signs have many names, and I will even give a few examples in relation to animals mostly camels and what they mean in English. Mind you these signs are very many and I believe some are relatively recent but I'll write down a few that I believe are the passed down signs from millenniums ago.

View attachment 260765View attachment 260766
DHAADAD- a letter C-looking kind of sign done on the chest or thigh.
GARABJIID- A sign that like letter l(L) done on the shoulder.
DILDILO- A sign made on the stomach that is a horizontal L.
DHAFOORSHIID- Made on the skull/back on the head that are two circles(shiid).
KABAAL- A sign that looks like a right up ل thats done on various parts of the body.
UDUB- is the same as Kabaal to me imo
XAYNBOORO- A horizontal L with a dot(circle) under it.
MAREEG- a circle on the neck
KILLIGUB- done above the kidney its a small circle.
ALIF- a long L, we use this in my family with an udub on the side.
HA- a arch sign done on the rounding part at the top of the neck.
LAANQEYR- a cross, this is what shiikhaal use
QALIN- done on the cheek straight over the septum to the other cheek.
QALQALE- Drag sign from the ear to the neck.
BAADISOOCDAN- a circle connected with a straight line going down.
DEEL- Sideways letter V


There's lots of research to be done inshallah on our vast and rich history we just haven't connected the dots due to constant fighting, but we will overcome this inshallah.
feel free to ask more questions and I will try answering them if they are in my capacity.
Click to expand...

Wonder if someone has done any academic work on this? And also, it is interesting that when I showed a Semitic studies linguist some symbols Sada Mire has called "Sabaean" he said they actually didn't look Musnad to him:

Shimbiris said:
Yes, I'm aware of this and found it quite interesting but isn't it also true that Oromos and other East Cushites had similar calendrical systems or were theirs less complex? That being said, I showed that linguist this, for example:

RbQub1b.jpeg


One of the early inscriptions Sada Mire made public. And he said it didn't actually look like any Musnad he knew. And I trust this guy because Semitic is his specialty yet despite that he is so well-versed in the rest of AA that he reads Hieroglyphs to people at museums as a party trick. Kekekeke. Very knowledgeable. I couldn't believe it fully even so hence I looked up the Musnad letters:

𐩠 h
𐩡 l
𐩢 ḥ
𐩣 m
𐩤 q
𐩥 w
𐩦 s² (š)
𐩧 r
𐩨 b
𐩩 t
𐩪 s¹ (s)
𐩫 k
𐩬 n
𐩭 ḫ
𐩮 ṣ
𐩯 s³ (ś)
𐩰 f
𐩱 ʾ
𐩲 ʿ
𐩳 ḍ
𐩴 g
𐩵 d
𐩹 ḏ
𐩻 ṯ
𐩼 ẓ

The one farthest to the left could be "q" if the shadow is obscuring another line under the "O" but he's seemingly right about the other 3 symbols. That does not actually look like Musnad. I wonder if Sada Mire just assumed this was OSA cos I'm not seeing it. Are you?
Click to expand...

Would be hilarious if Somalis had preserved to this day something like Tifnagh that's always been staring us right in the face.
 
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M

Midas

Shimbiris said:
Interesting. So they're basically a set of ideograms or logograms that people use to mark livestock, furniture and other things? Basically proto-writing like Nsibidi by the looks of it.



Wonder if someone has done any academic work on this? And also, it is interesting that when I showed a Semitic studies linguist some symbols Sada Mire has called "Sabaean" he said they actually didn't look Musnad to him:



Would be hilarious if Somalis had preserved to this day something like Tifnagh that's always been starting us right in the face.
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I waa going of a few guys i follow on twitter and I've heard people mention these names before as well.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Looks like somali sumado to me. <a href="https://t.co/4dc5mlkXyC">pic.twitter.com/4dc5mlkXyC</a></p>&mdash; unknown (@thetipofthehorn) <a href="">October 5, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Shimbiris

Shimbiris

بىَر غىَل إيؤ عآنؤ لؤ
VIP
Midas said:
I waa going of a few guys i follow on twitter and I've heard people mention these names before as well.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Looks like somali sumado to me. <a href="https://t.co/4dc5mlkXyC">pic.twitter.com/4dc5mlkXyC</a></p>&mdash; unknown (@thetipofthehorn) <a href="">October 5, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Click to expand...

Wallahi, it's wild if that's a real find that randos are just digging up archaeological finds but at least they try to keep them clean and document them. @Idilinaa rightly decried this kind of digging up and exploring of archaeological sites a while back.

Midas said:
I thought that too at first but nsbidi and the adi Shankra in Ghana. Have hundreds of symbols and they look like pictographs instead of letters
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Funnily enough, the ancestor of all alphabets pretty much was a similar system to Sumaado if indeed it was a group of set symbols in terms of numbers with each named:

en.wikipedia.org

Proto-Sinaitic script - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Proto-Sinaitic was basically symbols based on Hieroglyphs that had names, then the Semites basically used each the starting consonant of word the symbol represented to create a letter:
  • 𓂋 = Egyptian rosh ("head")
  • The Semites used it for /r/ (the r sound), because "rosh" begins with /r/.
Sumaado, if this is all legit, could have very well been morphed into something alphabetical in the same way but our ancestors would have to have made a leap from logograms we've only seen humans make once in our history as a species.

Not sure on that but this would at least confirm some form of proto-writing was used by our ancestors and, interestingly, with how unique these symbols look they may not even have an origin in Proto-Sinaitic (unlike Tifnagh). Someone really needs to look into this.
 
M

Midas

I think people should definitely look into stuff like Somali astronomy lore and divination practices. Since it's always that kind of stuff that's most likely to preserve remnants anicent culutral practices. Hieroglyphics were used for magic probably long after people forgot what they meant since it had esoteric associations
 
Idilinaa

Idilinaa

VIP
Can someone tell me where this is from? what is the source for this? It was shared in the thread post @Midas linked.

On the side of the picture the German translation says ''The inscription Stone of the Somali''
1746041056972.jpeg


It actually does look like a legit writing script or some weird hieroglyphics.
1746042256196.png
 
M

Midas

Shimbiris said:
Wallahi, it's wild if that's a real find that randos are just digging up archaeological finds but at least they try to keep them clean and document them. @Idilinaa rightly decried this kind of digging up and exploring of archaeological sites a while back.



Funnily enough, the ancestor of all alphabets pretty much was a similar system to Sumaado if indeed it was a group of set symbols in terms of numbers with each named:

en.wikipedia.org

Proto-Sinaitic script - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Proto-Sinaitic was basically symbols based on Hieroglyphs that had names, then the Semites basically used each the starting consonant of word the symbol represented to create a letter:
  • 𓂋 = Egyptian rosh ("head")
  • The Semites used it for /r/ (the r sound), because "rosh" begins with /r/.
Sumaado, if this is all legit, could have very well been morphed into something alphabetical in the same way but our ancestors would have to have made a leap from logograms we've only seen humans make once in our history as a species.

Not sure on that but this would at least confirm some form of proto-writing was used by our ancestors and, interestingly, with how unique these symbols look they may not even have an origin in Proto-Sinaitic (unlike Tifnagh). Someone really needs to look into this.
Click to expand...
Yeah it's definitely not a nothing burger. It also wouldn't be surprising in the sense of it surviving among somali pastoralists since it seems somali pastoralists persevere culutral practices that are a core part of the culture. Stuff like poetry and somali star lore
 
M

Midas

I think a problem we have is that we see a couple photos of stuff online of buildings and ruined towns and we think subconsciously that's a somehwat accurate approximation of how much is out there . When in reality it's basically the tip of the iceberg and there's all sorts of large structures and weird symbols that nobody's photographed and put online.
 
M

Midas

Researching stuff like this would be so much easier if there was a national archive or national library. Neither the fgs or any of the member states seem to have set any up yet.
 
G

GaradMusa

Idilinaa said:
Can someone tell me where this is from? what is the source for this? It was shared in the thread post @Midas linked.

On the side of the picture the German translation says ''The inscription Stone of the Somali''
View attachment 360265

It actually does look like a legit writing script or some weird hieroglyphics.
View attachment 360267
Click to expand...
This image comes from within a passage in Philipp Paulitschke's Harar. Forschungsreise nach den Somâl- und Galla-Ländern Ost-Afrikas; nebst Beiträgen. A link to this 1888 book can be found here, Google Books link.

He refers to it as the "inschriftenstein der somâl", which has a literal translation into English as "inscription stone of the Somali". He speak on it in length and states this:

Original German:

"Als wir den centralen Theil des Ejssalandes auf langen , mitunter in der Nacht bei dem Scheine brennender Reisig- bündel unternommenen Märschen erreicht hatten, fesselte das Vorkommen alter, grosser, mit eingemeisselten geheimnissvollen Schriftzeichen bedeckter Felsen (dagah hardan) meine Auf-merksamkeit. Die Somâl erklärten die äthiopischen Schrift-zeichen sehr ähnlichen Züge als Kennzeichen der Richtung , wohin die Familien mit dem Vieh auf die Weide gezogen. Bei näherer Betrachtung ergab sich, dass nur die Verunstaltung der ursprünglichen Schriftzüge durch Eingrabung frischer Mar-ken diesem Zwecke diente. Ich bin daher geneigt , diese In-schriften entweder für himjarische oder, was noch wahr-scheinlicher ist, für altäthiopische zu halten . Mein Freund, Kapitän King, dem ich photographische Abbildungen solcher Inschriftensteine aus den Ejssabergen danke, ist der Meinung, dass in diesen alten Denkmälern die Uranfänge eines Somâl-alphabets zu finden seien, welches freilich niemals ausgebildet und gebraucht worden sei. Der Gegenstand ist einer fach- männischen Untersuchung von Archäologen des afrikanischen Orients in hohem Grade würdig."

Rough English translation:

"When we reached the central part of the Eysa region after long marches, sometimes undertaken at night by the light of burning twigs, my attention was caught by the presence of large, ancient rocks (dagah hardan) covered with mysterious carved characters. The Somali explained the features, which were very similar to Ethiopian characters, as marking the direction in which families had gone with their cattle to graze. On closer examination, it became apparent that this purpose had only been served by the defacement of the original inscriptions by the inscription of new markers. I am therefore inclined to consider these inscriptions either Himyani or, more likely, ancient Ethiopian. My friend, Captain King, to whom I owe photographic illustrations of such inscribed stones from the Eysa Mountains, is of the opinion that these ancient monuments contain the rudiments of a Somali alphabet, which, however, was never developed or used. The object is highly worthy of expert study by archaeologists of the African Orient.
Click to expand...

I located another passage by Paulitschke from a few years later on in the Ethnographie Nordost-Afrikas Volumes 1-2. A link to this 1893 book can be found here, Google Book Link. Here is a link to the particular passage that I am referring to, Google Book Link:

Original German:

"Die Dágaha hardan (Inschriftensteine der Somal sind gewöhnlich nur mit den orientalischen Kameelzeichen"

Rough English translation:
"The Dágaha hardan (inscription stones) of the Somal are usually covered only with the oriental camel signs"
Click to expand...

Based on these passages, we can as of this moment reasonably infer several things:

(1) The inscriptions are not exclusively camel markings, but also indicate the direction of pastoral movements;​
(2) These inscriptions are numerous and can be found carved into stones (the "dagah hardan") rather than exclusively on animals themselves;​
(3) Some observers, such as Captain King, believed these markings could represent the early development of a Somali alphabet. Though based off his analysis they were "never developed or used".​
(4) Paulitschke himself suggests that these carvings may be related either Ancient South Arabian (Himyaritic) or those of Ethiopia.​

In due time, it is likely more detailed findings and passages will be rediscovered.
 
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M

Midas

GaradMusa said:
This image comes from within a passage in Philipp Paulitschke's Harar. Forschungsreise nach den Somâl- und Galla-Ländern Ost-Afrikas; nebst Beiträgen. A link to this 1888 book can be found here, Google Books link.

He refers to it as the "inschriftenstein der somâl", which has a literal translation into English as "inscription stone of the Somali". He speak on it in length and states this:



I located another passage by Paulitschke from a few years later on in the Ethnographie Nordost-Afrikas Volumes 1-2. A link to this 1893 book can be found here, Google Book Link. Here is a link to the particular passage that I am referring to, Google Book Link:



Based on these passages, we can reasonably infer several things:

(1) The inscriptions are not exclusively camel markings, but also indicate the direction of pastoral movements;​
(2) These inscriptions are numerous and can be found carved into stones (the "dagah hardan") rather than exclusively on animals themselves;​
(3) Some observers, such as Captain King, believed these markings could represent the early development of a Somali alphabet. Though based off his analysis they were "never developed or used".​
(4) Paulitschke himself suggests that these carvings may be related either Ancient South Arabian (Himyaritic) or those of Ethiopia.​

In due time, it is likely more detailed findings and passages will be rediscovered.
Click to expand...
Fascinating it seems like even these explorers though it was some type of proto alphabet.

Considering that this script/proto-script is preislamic . It's not surprising people would forget the meaning

Although I have hope will decipher it since there's very little dialectal variation among somali pastoralists and this was likley the case in the past as well
 
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