if somalia was a 1st world nation would you be pro immigration?

Yoo said:

If this country can be returned from the ashes and made to a 1st world nation, why would i want to share it?

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Indeed, especially when sharing it means its decline and destruction of people and dhaqan

Apollo said:

Somalia is not a white man's creation. It is the nation-state for all Somalis and still secretly has the aim to unify other Somalis when its current problems are solved. Somaliland is much much more of a white man's creation.

Something similar to Somalia would have existed whether the Italians showed up or not, while the concept of Somaliland would have never come about without the British.



You are a migrant from Somalia to Djibouti. Also, Djibouti, especially the Southeastern part, is ethnolinguistically-culturally not really a different country.

No offence, bu you are trying really hard to be foreigner/outsider when you are clearly not.

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Somalia is a colonial creation. You’re acting as if Somalia was there before the colonial powers. As if Somali tribes had any sort of coalition that extended beyond their sub tribes and across vast lands. As if Somalia isn’t a glued together hodgepodge of colonial holdings who’s borders were decided by said powers, and consisting of Somali groups who were never before liable to a unification of that size. The very name of the country “Somalia” itself is Italian.

It’s funny how you lot act as Somaliland is a “White man’s creation” and Somalia isn’t lol. Who are you kidding?

VixR said:

Somalia is a colonial creation. You’re acting as if Somalia was there before the colonial powers. As if Somali tribes had any sort of coalition that extended beyond their sub tribes and across vast lands. The very name of the country “Somalia” is Italian.

It’s funny how you lot act as Somaliland is a “White man’s creation” and Somalia isn’t lol. Who are you kidding?

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Btw most people tend to think Somalia refers to the southern portion. But Somalia in its original form is a post colonial creation, namely a coalition between the north (British Somaliland) and the south (Italian somaliland). Just wanted to correct you on that.

Check said:

Btw most people tend to think Somalia refers to the southern portion. But Somalia in its original form is a post colonial creation, namely a coalition between the north (British Somaliland) and the south (Italian somaliland). Just wanted to correct you on that.

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The whole darn thing is a colonial creation. Italian Somaliland is just another name for Somalia, which is the name they unironically kept for the merge.

They were never meant to come together as evidenced by how that turned out. It’s unequivocally false that the idea of a Somalia is a Somali concoction.

VixR said:

The whole darn thing is a colonial creation. Italian Somaliland is just another name for Somalia, which is the name they unironically kept for the merge.

They were never meant to come together as evidenced by how that turned out. It’s unequivocally false that the idea of a Somalia is a Somali concoction.

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Of course there was never a concept of one Somali republic pre colonisation. But post colonisation the fantastical idea was adopted by northern and southern Somalis with the intention to gather the other somaliweyn regions but of course now we can see that Somalis were never meant to be unified under one flag, So yes it was a Somali concoction albeit an optimistic one

Check said:

Of course there was never a concept of one Somali republic pre colonisation. But post colonisation the fantastical idea was adopted by northern and southern Somalis with the intention to gather the other somaliweyn regions but of course now we can see that Somalis were never meant to be unified under one flag,

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Do you disagree that it’s incredibly disingenuous to conclude that Somaliland is a White man’s creation and Somalia isn’t?

It isn’t fantastical for two colonial entities of a similar background who gained independence subsequently to merge. Let’s not pretend they were of their own making when they were a product of colonialism to begin with. Merging two colonial entities is just making one giant bicolonial project, which as I mentioned unironically kept the Italized name the Italians called their own colony “Somalia”.

I really wonder if SL and Somalia had respectively kept their infrastructure and ruled their respective territories after independence, if there would’ve been the level of conflict that ensued.

One of the reasons I believe the Somalia government could’ve countenanced a military drone strike on its own countrymen is because they did not see them, the SL region, as a part of itself. They acted as if they were dealing outside their border.

VixR said:

Do you disagree that it’s incredibly disingenuous to conclude that Somaliland is a White man’s creation and Somalia isn’t?

It isn’t fanstical for two colonial entities of a similar background who gained independence subsequently to merge. Let’s not pretend they were of their own making when they were a product of colonialism to begin with. Merging two colonial entities is just making one giant bicolonial project, which as I mentioned unironically kept the Italized name the Italians alled their own colony “Somalia”.

I really wonder if SL and Somalia had respectively kept their infrastructure and ruled their respective territories after independence, if there would’ve been the level of conflict that ensued.

One of the reasons I believe the Somalia government could’ve countenanced a military drone strike on its own countrymen is because they did not see them, the SL region, as a part of itself.

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Prior to any white man intervention into the Somali territory. The Somali lands were sultanates and people lived along qabil lines. So when the white men cane along and named the regions Italian, British and French somaliland. The regions already existed albeit in a different format. As Shakespeare’s summarises a rose would still be a rose even if it was called something else.

What I’m trying to say is what you are referring to as Somalia and somaliland weren’t even geographically what they are today. The lands were split differently. So essentially if we go by your logic then sland and Somalia wouldn’t exist if not for white mans border making


So yes both concepts are white mans creations during colonisation. But post colonisation it is the Somali peoples creation. And now it is again another point in history with the north wanting to be freed from the Somalia coalition. So it’s all evolutions of names and landmasses

Check said:

Prior to any white man intervention into the Somali territory. The Somali lands were sultanates and people lived along qabil lines. So when the white men cane along and named the regions Italian, British and French somaliland. The regions already existed albeit in a different format. As Shakespeare’s summarises a rose would still be a rose even if it was called something else.

What I’m trying to say is what you are referring to as Somalia and somaliland weren’t even geographically what they are today. The lands were split differently. So essentially if we go by your logic then sland and Somalia wouldn’t exist if not for white mans border making


So yes both concepts are white mans creations during colonisation. But post colonisation it is the Somali peoples creation. And now it is again another point in history with the north wanting to be freed from the Somalia coalition. So it’s all evolutions of names and landmasses

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Our point of divergence seems to be the bold.

I disagree that “unifying” two colonially created land masses makes it a “Somali creation”, and that if one of the two secedes, that digresses it back to a “White man’s creation” lol.

Either you accept that you’re unsuccessfully smashing together two “White man’s creations”, or you’re just lying to yourself.

VixR said:

Our point of divergence seems to be the bold.

I disagree that “unifying” two colonially created land masses makes it a “Somali creation”, and that if one of the two secedes, that makes it a “White man’s creation”lol.

Either you accept that you’re unsuccessfully smashing together two “White man’s creations”, or you’re just lying to yourself.

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Well if we use your logic. Before the white man came along and made his borders. He mashed together already existing Somali lands drawn by Somali people. So it was a Somali mans creation. Where does the line end because this can go way back 1000s of years or is the white mans precedent above all?

Btw @VixR just so you know my stance I’m all for somaliland independence and any other regions who want to break away. The concept of one somali republic doesn’t bind me.

Check said:

Well if we use your logic. Before the white man cane along and made his borders. He mashed together already existing Somali lands made by Somali people. So it was a Somali mans creation. Where does the line end because this can goe way back 1000s of years.

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False dichotomy.

It’s clear that the line would stop precolonialism when the Somalis were in charge of their own lands, but there were no land masses equivocal to what the colonial powers forced together in terms of French, Italian, and British Somalilands respectively.

VixR said:

False dichotomy.

It’s clear that the line would stop precolonialism when the Somalis were in charge of their own lands, but there were no land masses equivocal to what the colonial powers forced together in terms of French, Italian, and British Somalilands respectively.

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According to whom? There were sultanates across the territories. Anyhow as a forward thinker, I can acknowledge that land masses evolve over time so instead of looking back in history I prefer to look forward. In future the Somali territories will continue to evolve and have new names and borders. So it’s all relative

Check said:

According to whom? There were sultanates across the territories.

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Sure, because clans went across the borders determined by the colonial powers.

It doesn’t change the fact that their scale and inclusion in terms of other tribes weren’t anything like they were during and post colonialism in the 3 Somalilands.

VixR said:

Sure, because clans went across the borders determined by the colonial powers.

It doesn’t change the fact that their scale and inclusion in terms of other tribes weren’t anything like they were during and post colonialism in the 3 Somalilands.

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Since we seem to be going further off into tangents. Let me reorientate this convo. I still stand by my original point in agreeance with @Apollo. That the Somali republic (blue flag) was not a white mans creation. That is the fact. We can argue the nuances and what ifs all we like this does not change the fact.

Check said:

Since we seem to be going further off into tangents. Let me reorientate this convo. I still stand by my original point in agreeance with @Apollo. That the Somali republic (blue flag) was not a white mans creation. That is the fact. We can argue the nuances and what ifs all we like this does not change the fact.

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Lol.