Lets revisit somali history: the case of bride kidnappings. are we all the products of rape?

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Wardheere

Qolana Janno qolana naar
Marriage negotiotions used to be lenghthy and the girl and the guy who want to get mareied will be dragged for years. If she wants the guy she will go with him(laroorid ayaa ladhahaa). He wont even touch her and are usually accompanied by a friend of his. He takes her to his family and send back odayaal to do subeeyn xir(raali galin). Mostly meher will be done very fast and aroos to follow swiftly.

This is far from rape Toxique.
 
Your dumb ass does realize that men and women have the same number of raped female ancestors, right? By your retard logic, I can say that deceptive one-night stands are payback for the girls' forefathers beings rapists.
 

NotAjnabi

Somalilander
Your dumb ass does realize that men and women have the same number of raped female ancestors, right? By your retard logic, I can say that deceptive one-night stands are payback for the girls' forefathers beings rapists.
Imagine thinking that it's true, but maybe it's true for the lamagoodles.
 

Toxique

hood arawelo
Your dumb ass does realize that men and women have the same number of raped female ancestors, right? By your retard logic, I can say that deceptive one-night stands are payback for the girls' forefathers beings rapists.

the difference is us halimos r disgusted by this practice but the abdis either deny it or defend it. don’t fight ur nature u filthy rapist :pacspit:
 

RedStar

The Bad Ali of Jigjiga
VIP
Red

Go back to the source and re-read what Dr Maryan Qasim objected to and then only, could we have an honest discussion. Culturally, Rapists are rewarded. Somali culture forces victims to marry their rapists. As for bride abducting, our culture is based on the supremacy of the clan over the State. Each individual bestows their loyalty towards the clan. Then, what happens when clans are feuding and are at war with one another? That’s where the connection of bride abduction is made. These abductions has been practiced as recently as the 2000’s. Culturally, we don’t have rules of engagement during wartime. The end result of clan-wars is to humiliate and defeat the enemy by all means necessary, so poems of bravery will be penned for the victors by their poets.

Somaliland has now introduced a bill against rape-shame marriages, but you know in other parts of Somalia, a rape victim will be forced to marry her rapist? If Somaliland passed a bill, it indicates that the phenomenon exists and don’t attempt to spin and sugarcoat it. What sort of a message will that send to boys. If a girl refuses for marriage, go and rape her, then she will be forced to marry you. Isn’t that a rape culture?

You are a fucking liar. When the f*ck have Somalis ever been raping and pillaging other clans like the Vikings and Greeks? Your lack of knowledge of Somali customs is very clear, but you choose to argue and try move the argument away from the stupid statement you made that I originally quoted. Somalis DO have rules of engagement, hence why the elderly, women and children are collectively referred to as Birmageydo, meaning those exempt from aggression in times of war.

Yet again you are spreading misinformation. The issue of rapists getting off lightly (paying compensation and not going to jail) was main reason Somaliland passed the bill, not because rapists were marrying their victims. It is an act of war for someone of clan X to harm someone from clan Y. I witnessed this with my own two eyes when I was in a rural town in K5 last year. Two neighbouring clans fought. Half a dozen men died because a young girl was raped. The rapist was killed and his clan was forced to pay diyya for the rape and the men that died in the skirmish. That is how it has always been.

In our culture, we have a tradition of eloping, not bride kidnapping. Women who feared their family would object to the man they wanted to marry would leave their home and go somewhere with their lovers, until the elders from her clan agree to give her hand in marriage.

I think it is you who's completely skewing what Dr Maryam Qaasim said because you can't fucking prove that Somalia is the world's rape capital. You posted a link that references Dr Qaasim's quote to highlight the dire situation in Somalia, a quote where she didn't even mention rape stats.
Dr Qaasim worked in the health sector and saw first hand the plight of the women in Somalia. The threat of AS, FGM, high maternal mortality, high infant mortality, poor sanitation were are all key factors in the reports that named Somalia as the worst place for a mother.

Anyway I'm tired of you dodging the main issue here. Either prove that Somalia is the rape capital of the world or stop quoting me.
 
Redstar

You can spin as much as you want and deny it because during the civil war, people including women and children were intentionally driven to the river for only them to die from drowning and eaten by crocodiles, many were burnt to death in boiling oil barrels. Somalis have always practiced looting and raiding treasures and women of defeated tribes. Certain Somali clans kidnaped women from “minority clans” and drove them to their region as trophies. These are not tales of the Vikings, but are our recent history of the civil war. The article was about rape in Somalia, the Congolese and the afghani analogy disturbed Dr Qasim and she made a strong protest that they couldn’t be worse than Somalia. As for Somaliland passing the law banning the marriage of rape victims to their rapists as dictated by the Somali culture, it could be found via a google search. I’m on my phone right now, but I will post it later.
 

RedStar

The Bad Ali of Jigjiga
VIP
Redstar

You can spin as much as you want and deny it because during the civil war, people including women and children were intentionally driven to the river for only them to die from drowning and eaten by crocodiles, many were burnt to death in boiling oil barrels. Somalis have always practiced looting and raiding treasures and women of defeated tribes. Certain Somali clans kidnaped women from “minority clans” and drove them to their region as trophies. These are not tales of the Vikings, but are our recent history of the civil war. The article was about rape in Somalia, the Congolese and the afghani analogy disturbed Dr Qasim and she made a strong protest that they couldn’t be worse than Somalia. As for Somaliland passing the law banning the marriage of rape victims to their rapists as dictated by the Somali culture, it could be found via a google search. I’m on my phone right now, but I will post it later.

I'm tired of your selective replies. You can start by proving that your statement is correct. Only then will I address your reply.
 

Factz

Factzopedia
VIP
the difference is us halimos r disgusted by this practice but the abdis either deny it or defend it. don’t fight ur nature u filthy rapist :pacspit:

Just STFU naaya you self hater! You don't know history so don't speak on something you are ignorant about. Only some of the royal dynasties that ruled Somali Sultanates practised ius primae noctis, not the regular Somali male citizens. As for tribes raiding other tribes, kidnapping women is unheard off. If tribes were overpowered, they would give their women to other tribes so they can be left alone. What kind of historical revisionist are you lying about?

Plus, nobody believes your finessing anyone. You either got to be a that is making money from Faraaxs or you're just a basement dwelling liar. One of these two.
 

Toxique

hood arawelo
Just STFU naaya you self hater! You don't know history so don't speak on something you are ignorant about. Only some of the royal dynasties that ruled Somali Sultanates practised ius primae noctis, not the regular Somali male citizens. As for tribes raiding other tribes, kidnapping women is unheard off. If tribes were overpowered, they would give their women to other tribes so they can be left alone. What kind of historical revisionist are you lying about?

Plus, nobody believes your finessing anyone. You either got to be a that is making money from Faraaxs or you're just a basement dwelling liar. One of these two.

hey u dumb shit, u can’t GIVE women away. they’re not a herd of animals but humans. u really thought ur dumb ass was on to somethin but wat u described is the very definition of RAPE. hav u ever heard of consent u filthy rape apologist??:susp::pacspit:
 

Toxique

hood arawelo
Redstar

You can spin as much as you want and deny it because during the civil war, people including women and children were intentionally driven to the river for only them to die from drowning and eaten by crocodiles, many were burnt to death in boiling oil barrels. Somalis have always practiced looting and raiding treasures and women of defeated tribes. Certain Somali clans kidnaped women from “minority clans” and drove them to their region as trophies. These are not tales of the Vikings, but are our recent history of the civil war. The article was about rape in Somalia, the Congolese and the afghani analogy disturbed Dr Qasim and she made a strong protest that they couldn’t be worse than Somalia. As for Somaliland passing the law banning the marriage of rape victims to their rapists as dictated by the Somali culture, it could be found via a google search. I’m on my phone right now, but I will post it later.

their denial is why the rape culture will neva be fixed. :uCkf6mf:
 

Factz

Factzopedia
VIP
hey u dumb shit, u can’t GIVE women away. they’re not a herd of animals but humans. u really thought ur dumb ass was on to somethin but wat u described is the very definition of RAPE. hav u ever heard of consent u filthy rape apologist??:susp::pacspit:

I hate rapist and I believe there should get a death sentence for it but you're misunderstanding my point again. When you pass women away, obviously you get their consent because that's what our culture was built upon.
 
I'm tired of your selective replies. You can start by proving that your statement is correct. Only then will I address your reply.

Redstar

Sxb, you are the one denying the article I posted, titled, “Living Hell,:Somalia’s Hidden Rape Epidemic” was about rape and argued Dr Qassim’s comment in that article was about FGM and child mortality rates and not rape. How sad!!!

Google, ‘Rapists in Somaliland will no longer be allowed to marry victims under New law.’

Or

Somaliland’s new law ends age-old culture of forcing rapists to marry victims.

Sxb, from the above articles, it’s quiet evident as clear as a blue sky that we did/do have a rape culture. I love the way you pull a niqab over your face when facts are presented to you. Maybe as a resident of K5 you weren’t aware of this issue and the Somali rape epidemic?

Check this book (you will find through google), it’s called, ‘The Untold Story: The War Through the Eyes of Somali Women’. It covers rape and the abduction of Somali women within the Somali cultural context.

On page 77

Dhabar-garaac, meaning forced marriage, occurs in nomadic society when a girl is abducted by raiders and then forced to marry one of her captors. This practice is extremely coercive, with the girl being beaten, starved and otherwise physically and psychologically abused until she agrees to marry. This practice had begun to disappear but underwent a resurgence with the outbreak of civil war when there was an increase in the numbers of women without traditional networks of protection.

Laheyste-galmo means literally ‘sexual hostage’ and most people say that it was unheard of before the war. Some, however, say that it did occur in the past, mostly during times of inter-clan warfare.’

P-79

A strong cultural stigma is attached to rape in Somalia. Women who have been raped face not only physical and psychological trauma but also likely of rejection by their families....the social consequences of rape include rejection by husband, family, community. One 16 year old Somali girl who was raped stated: ‘Now I’m treated like a prostitute. The only I want is to be buried alive and disappear from this world.’

Sxb, stop being in denial mode, we do have a culture of rape.
 

RedStar

The Bad Ali of Jigjiga
VIP
Redstar

Sxb, you are the one denying the article I posted, titled, “Living Hell,:Somalia’s Hidden Rape Epidemic” was about rape and argued Dr Qassim’s comment in that article was about FGM and child mortality rates and not rape. How sad!!!

Who are you preaching to?? Go back on my comments and tell me where I denied that we have a rape problem or that rape played a part in Somalia being ranked one of the worst places for a woman. The article highlighted it as one of the variables that gave Somalia its position in the rankings, but rape isn't the sole reason and that is me just paraphrasing what was on the Amnesty International article.

Since you are deliberately being obtuse, here's Dr Qaasim's comment in the article you posted:

Somalia is one of the world’s worst places to be a woman, according to a recent survey by Trust Law, a project of the Thomson Reuters Foundation. Somalia’s minister for women's development and family welfare, Maryan Qasim, says she is “completely surprised” that Somalia isn’t number one (it currently ranks behind Afghanistan and the Democratic Republic of Congo), calling the nation a “living hell” for females.

She wasn't mentioned anywhere in the article but for this paragraph. Now this paragraph references Thomson Reuters Foundation who interviewed Dr Qaasim, so let's find that interview and see if Dr Qaasim solely attributes this ranking to rape or rape + other factors.

“I’m completely surprised because I thought Somalia would be first on the list, not fifth,” said Maryan Qasim.

The lawless country has been engulfed in conflict for 20 years. But the greatest risk to women’s lives is not war but birth. One woman dies for every 100 live births, according to U.N. figures — one of the highest rates in the world.

“The most dangerous thing a woman in Somalia can do is to become pregnant,” Qasim said. “When a woman becomes pregnant her life is 50-50 because there is no antenatal care at all ... There are no hospitals, no healthcare, no nothing.”

The poll by TrustLaw (www.trust.org/trustlaw), a legal news service run by Thomson Reuters Foundation, marked the launch of its new TrustLaw Women section, a global hub of news and information on women’s legal rights.

TrustLaw asked more than 200 gender experts to pick the world’s most dangerous countries for women. Somalia trailed behind Afghanistan, Congo, Pakistan and India.

But Qasim described Somalia as a “living hell” for women struggling to feed their children amid war and drought.

The constant risk of getting shot or raped, the lack of education and healthcare and practices like female genital mutilation make women’s lives unbelievably hard, she said.


“If I was asked where is the most dangerous place to be a woman I would have said with certainty Somalia,” she told the Foundation during a trip to London.

RAPE
Qasim, who has spent two decades in exile, said she was shocked by the destitution she saw when she returned to Somalia’s capital Mogadishu last year after being asked to become minister for women’s development and family welfare.

Many women have lost their husbands in the fighting, meaning they not only have to raise their children on their own but also scrape together an income to feed the family.

Somalia has been without an effective central government since the overthrow of dictator Mohamed Siad Barre in 1991.

Its U.N.-backed transitional government is embroiled in war with Islamist rebels who want to impose their own harsh version of sharia law on the nation.


Around 1.4 million people, mostly women and children, are displaced within Somalia after being forced to flee their homes. Rape is a risk for many.

“Rape was used in the beginning as a weapon of war, but now women who are from a minority or who have been displaced can be raped at any minute. I’ve seen a case of rape as young as five years old,” Qasim added.

Women’s health is also seriously compromised by the practice of female genital mutilation (FGM), said the minister who worked as an obstetrician and gynaecologist in Somalia until 1991.

The practice, which is carried out on almost all girls aged four to 10, is aimed at ensuring girls remain virgins until marriage. But it can cause difficulties in labour and is a factor behind the high rates of death in childbirth.

Qasim said people used to be punished for carrying out FGM but now there are no laws and the practice has returned. Some 95 percent of women in Somalia have undergone FGM, according to U.N. figures.

The minister said she had come across cases of men divorcing new wives if they had not undergone FGM so mothers continue the custom to protect their daughters.

Qasim, who was working as a teacher in Britain when she was invited to join Somalia’s government last year, stressed that one of the greatest needs for women was education.

“If women are not educated, I think definitely we cannot build a society. I’ve met so many young girls and women in Mogadishu — you cannot imagine their appetite for education but they do not have that opportunity.”


The lack of rule of law, which lets people kill and rape with impunity, and misinterpretation of Islam both compound women’s oppression, the minister said.

“After the collapse of the Somali state so many groups and terrorists from all over the world came to Somalia and interpreted Islam as they liked — women cannot go outside, they cannot wear bras ... They do whatever they want and they say this is Islam, but it has nothing to do with Islam.”

Both men and women need to be educated more about Islam and women’s rights, she said.

You can read the article here

Now isn't that what I've been saying throughout our whole exchange? Rape, FGM, high maternal mortality, infant mortality, lack of education, lack of proper healthcare, poor sanitation all played a part in it so kindly STFU and stop arguing facts.

Listen here mate, you can dally around the main issue however long you like, but I don't see you proving that Somalia is the rape capital of the world. I've asked you four times now. So once you get that out of the way, then we'll have a debate on whether rapists are rewarded in Somali culture or not.
 
Who are you preaching to?? Go back on my comments and tell me where I denied that we have a rape problem

You are a fucking liar. When the f*ck have Somalis ever been raping and pillaging other clans like the Vikings and Greeks?

Yet again you are spreading misinformation. The issue of rapists getting off lightly (paying compensation and not going to jail) was main reason Somaliland passed the bill, not because rapists were marrying their victims.




or that rape played a part in Somalia being ranked one of the worst places for a woman.

Let's not play with semantics and belittle the contribution of rape for Somalia to gain that kind of a ranking. No goal shifts and gymnastics mate. Let us admit that the article is correct that rape is epidemic in Somalia.

In Somalia, rape is "normal", but the government can change that.

In a country where one-third of the victims of sexual crimes are children, police training and a "zero-tolerance policy" can go a long way.

ttps://www.hrw.org/news/2014/03/07/somalia-rape-normal-government-can-change

Rape victims still blamed for sexual violence in Somalia.

Around one third of victims of sexual violence in Somalia are under 18.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-for-sexual-violence-in-somalia-10229605.html

The worst place in the world to be a woman.

Somali women suffer more than those in most other places. Some brave ones are fighting back.

LISA SHANNON is a women's-rights activist and co-founder of first sexual-violence centre in Somalia's capital, Mogadishu.

https://www.economist.com/prospero/2012/04/12/the-worst-place-in-the-world-to-be-a-woman

Why the need for a sexual centre if rape only played a part of the our tag, 'The worst place in the world to be a woman.'? Sxb, you are like many Somalis I met who wish victims of rape to disappear from the face of the earth because it damages their bird-view of Somali culture. Pride.


 

RedStar

The Bad Ali of Jigjiga
VIP
Let's not play with semantics and belittle the contribution of rape for Somalia to gain that kind of a ranking. No goal shifts and gymnastics mate.

Listen here you conniving toad, the article you posted highlighted the rape problem in Somalia and referenced that the country is one of the worst places to be a woman: a rank that was obtained when you account many factors, rape being one of them.

The article paraphrased another article where Dr Qaasim mentions all the factors that gives her such a negative view on Somalia. You're literally twisted the minister's words if you claim she only said that because of rape.

Let us admit that the article is correct that rape is epidemic in Somalia.

I've already stated that we have a rape problem, but if you weren't such a blowhard that's virtue signalling on a forum full of kids instead of having a proper conversation, you'd know that my problem with you is your preposterous claim that Somalia is the rape capital of the world. It's exactly the sort of nonsense you've been saying on this thread that makes these kind of conversations hard.

Anyways, you couldn't prove your claim, despite all your efforts to wriggle around it. How pathetic.
 

one

ᶜᵃʷᵒ ᶜᵃʷˡᵒ
When you pass women away, obviously you get their consent because that's what our culture was built upon.
Not really. Their consent was never needed because according to the Shafi'i madhab, a father can give away his daughter without her consent. Our culture was built upon "Inantaydaan ku siiyaye now GTFO:gunsmiley:".
 

World

VIP
Not really. Their consent was never needed because according to the Shafi'i madhab, a father can give away his daughter without her consent. Our culture was built upon "Inantaydaan ku siiyaye now GTFO:gunsmiley:".
If our culture is built upon the rulings of the Shafi’i madhab, then what’s wrong with that? Are you a gaal? Do you think you’re above Islam now that the west has lifted you from “oppression” and given you “freedom”?

Feminists. :nahgirl:
 

one

ᶜᵃʷᵒ ᶜᵃʷˡᵒ
If our culture is built upon the rulings of the Shafi’i madhab, then what’s wrong with that? Are you a gaal? Do you think you’re above Islam now that the west has lifted you from “oppression” and given you “freedom”?

Feminists. :nahgirl:
Except, I never said anything about it being wrong or right.
Not adhering to the Shafi'i madhab doesn't make you gaal or above Islam.
"West, oppression, freedom" ..Lolwut?
 
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